Hacksaw Jim Duggan

It is still relevant to the general point which is - people will turn up regardless of who is on show, yes they will, just not many, or for that matter even close to as many. As an addition re what you are saying, if it was a truism the promotion would be best served not bothering their time with the Premiership and simply going Championship.... same crowds, less costs etc - they don't and it will be decision made from far sounder grounding that which you are saying, which only further shows to say what you are saying is really what you wish to be true rather than that would be.

But as the crowd validates, very few people actually care.

This video suggests you are talking absolute bollocks - date, a Friday night - there is next to no one thereto simply go out and see the Aces race no matter the rider in the jacket.

About as wishful as people sticking with the sport to see "a good nights racing" , crowds don't lie.

If only Speedway tracks had crowds as small as they were 6 or 7 years ago. Yes, it will never be what is was in the 80s again, but at the minute it is barely even attended as it was in 2010, when crowds were bigger and hadn't shrunk as much as they have now. The sport has hemorrhaged people in a pretty short space of time, all of which does just happen to coincide with the departure of better riders, but I mean clearly that doesn't suggest it's the reason, it just HAS to be something other than that (it's not)

I thought my original point had made that pretty clear to be honest. "The USP IS the sport, when people wish to attend they want to see fast racing and the best riders - this has shown over the years when the sport had better riders - more people were attending.... it now doesn't have the best riders, less people are attending" I had assumed that had covered my thoughts re where attendances would be with better riders

I could just make up random figures, but really what is the point in that as it is just an imaginary conversation.

Well yeah, that's why I replied with a one word answer, pretty self explanatory...

Grand....

I don't know what you are talking about anymore sorry.

Just as not everyone cares about a scoreboard.... it is a minority attraction.

Both things you mention are the exact evidence of "what I mean" none of which is even remotely close to "abuse" I fail to see where this notion of a £50 sport with teams built like those in the Polish league have come from, this seems to be your own thought process which you have imposed.

I wouldn't even begin to know, nor it is particularly relevant as there is a slight readjustment here of you turning a horse into a giraffe on your own volition.

Loads and loads and loads of people, the notion the difference is 1, 2 or 3 seconds is beyond mental.

Score yes, scoreboard - it is totally moot re retention of fans.

I would say your figures are pretty skewed in favor of the answer you want from the question to be honest.

fast speedway racing and the best speedway riders is a pretty unique USP given that would be speedway exclusive though given my post was in context to the sport of speedway. There is a tendency on such threads when suggestions are put forward to think things like themed music are the selling point and what will attract people back, it likely won't that's not unique or different etc - the selling point, the thing that makes each sport unique, a draw or an attraction in the actual sport on offer, some can tend to have a tendency to over complicate that

In the nicest way possible, most of the suggestions on here are a bit, crap - it is nothing out the box, and nothing that hasn't been mentioned and done to death 100 times. A new fan will most likely neither notice or care about such things as score boards or the overly done to death obsession with music played at a meeting. A subject that has been tirelessly spoken about on this forum for one which is so meaningless when it comes to reasons why people don't attend. As well as not being of interest to most new fans, the things mentioned have done little to retain fans who have left the sport, fans have dwindled out the door as the product has watered down because fans of a sport know what good looks like. If people want to stand and listen to music, they go to a thing called a concert, a pub or bar - very few people attend a meeting in the hope they will hear a fantastic song, very few reflect back on their speedway memories and reflect on the music played or the scoreboard - these things aren't the USP, they are a backdrop at best. The USP IS the sport, when people wish to attend they want to see fast racing and the best riders - this has shown over the years when the sport had better riders - more people were attending.... it now doesn't have the best riders, less people are attending. There is too much speedway in this country, the season is too long, the sport drags on months past it has to, there are too many finals, semi finals and championships - they all just lose meaning and become lost in each other, in a desperate attempt to boost revenue by hosting more, the sport has just made everything less than, ends up with Finals and Semi Finals overlapping to the point they start to confuse each other. Speedway should be a league season, less meetings and attempt to boost the quality again. Once people know they are watching good again, they might consider the sport again. A Poole fan who was spoiled on Rickardson, Loram, Holder etc isn't coming back for a score board and Calvin Harris music when he is having to watch a team the standard of that they have the last few years. A new fan likely won't stick around long when they know they aren't watching the best on offer, there has always been a naivety around the idea a new fan would fall for the BS of just watching a good race, for a while at best they might, but more people want to see the best at their sport rather than those less than, most sports attendances reflect that - quality typically equates to a higher attendance. If you are asking people for the cost speedway tracks do you need to have some pretty decent USP's - scoreboards, music etc ain't that, people can find that at most other sports in the country which offer far superior stadia and facilities to that which most speedway tracks ever will, when they first walk into most their first impression at most tracks will likely be what a dump it is compared to stadiums and sports they have been at . It is actually probably more beneficial to draw peoples eyes away from most of the dumps they have to stand in.

I would like to hope not, as that is a bit of a defeatists and losers attitude to life which won't see them go very far in the sport. That probably does reflect in the standard of racing in recent years.

To you, I appreciate it is, but to most they are looking for the riders to be of a better standard than those we are "treated" to the in the UK, people do know what good looks like and is.

The premise that people just want to be entertained and will turn up regardless is surely blown to bits by Poole alone? They went from a side with Rickardson, Adams, Loram etc turning out for them and attracted crowds to make most blush. They are now a watered down version of what they once were, and their attendances show that. All the while a track like Scunthorpe has never grown based solely on "entertainment" If people simply wanted to be entertained by the "love of the sport" why do so many bother spending the time effort and money going to the GP in Cardiff when they could just go to the National League Riders Championship? Surely both should attract similar sized crowds? "entertainment" typically goes hand in hand with the better standard of riders who generally provide a better level of entertainment. The lesser the quality of rider the lesser the standard of entertainment, the notion you can see a National League meeting as good as a Grand Prix meeting for instance, has never actually been a truism. British Speedway hasn't been on a mission to find its true belonging by "removing" the top riders, it has lost it's identity in loosing them and attempted to flip the narrative to "we didn't need them anyway" which has been held like a comfort blanket by those who have watched others walk away. Very few people only go for "the love of the sport" recent years have cemented that - people did want to see names, the best riders on show, it is why more people went when they were on show.

While I appreciate the element of speculate to accumulate etc, if tracks haven’t been in a place where they have the disposable income to spend on scoreboards before I doubt they will now, nor do I think it would be crowd growing if they did. I don’t think it is such things that have kept people away but rather a crap product across the board I would apply that same disposable income theory to possible attendees (and sponsors) as well, it will most likely be a while before a decent % of people have the money to keep attendances where they were (poor) let alone grow them or change the destiny of the sport. The majority of tracks will do well to survive this, which in turn will diminish the number of riders who choose, or actually have the choice to make it their profession or even hobby.

In answer to the original point, no, most likely not as it is currently known. It will at best become an amateur sport in the UK with few faculties left open IMO.

I suppose it depends on the definition of survival, but yeah sure, somewhere in the country there will be some field where some people watch 4 guys racing a bike.

I appreciate the wishful thinking but I doubt it. I don’t really think the narrative around the sport can be changed and it will most likely fade away after all of this.