Ben91

The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption.

How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please.

How you can call the short comings of both promotions Len Silvers fault is beyond me. How people can suggest the Hawks racing solely at Lakeside would have made them successful is also a lot of rubbish (stronger word should be used but it's a family forum ). Hopwood (Who is now a Rye asset) and Freemantle aside, all the Hawks had previous Rye connections. Whilst Owen and Hazelden are both Hammers assets, if there wasn't the Hawks they would both be Rye NL riders this season anyway. It is a real shame the venture hasn't worked, it could have been fantastic for both parties if promoted properly, the message to both promotions should really be, you only get out what you put in. I hope Rye will continue to track a NL team, in the form of the Raiders (Not Cobras, such a poor team nickname) from 2012 onwards and carry on bringing through the young Brits.

From a realistic view, this was never going to work and it wasn't a way of re-creating the Dudley model either. It was a way for Rye to lose a few fixtures to ease congestion and for Lakeside to add a few to keep a steady flow of weekly speedway. The way the Sheffield/Scunthorpe team have been named is silly IMO, however it is better than trying to bring fans in from a track which has no real link to either track, with the the exception of Len Silver promoting at Rye. There were no plans to get Hackney back in to Hackney itself and this is probably what kept a lot of people away, the Dudley fans are a rare breed, there were lots at Rye tonight for the British Under 19 Final, if the meeting wasn't at Rye, I wouldn't have attended, so it shows their commitment. There was no Hackney merchandise either and programmes were not even Hackney programmes, little things like that just add to the mickey mouse approach this was unfortunately given. If it was approached the right way, things could have been a great success and the partnership between Rye and Lakeside would have blossomed with riders being able to progress from the NL to the EL without having to club hop. I doubt this will signal the end of NL at Rye from next season, however I'd love to see the Raiders name brought back, Raiders meetings always used to draw decent crowds and having sides with riders such as Boxall, Allen, Bowen, Mear, Burchatt, Betson, Halsey and Powell, all who have gone on to PL at least helped get the fans excited.

If your boss told you it was safe to stick your head in the oven would you? There is a difference between tricky and untraceable conditions, if the riders felt unsafe racing then they are within their rights to not race.

Not at all mate, nothing wrong with a decent speedway debate, we both have differing opinions perhaps, but that's life and I'm sure we both want what is best for the sport in Britain because it would be terrible to see Britain drop back any further than we already have done on the international stage. If it does happen it will send the sport into a bigger decline than it is already in in the UK. So these lads need all the support they can get from the authorities.

I think you are reading my post wrongly mate, whilst the loopholes are there then good luck to the Aussie lads for using them to their advantage, also like you say, it would be hard to close them due to the lads having dual nationality and they have the right to choose, my point being, if they choose Australia then they should have to join the PL on a 5 point average. They make their bed so should have to lie in it. It would be naive to say if the 2/3 spots filled by young Aussies who will go on to ride for Aus were taken by Brits it would turn around the fortunes of British speedway but every little has an impact further down the line, granted these lads will go on to ride PL anyway but there's no reason they shouldn't start there rather than going through the NL. Back on topic, hopefully the lads who are going can come away from the meeting with a good result and valuable experience. 'Ommer um

Which is exactly the point, these riders should be told if they want to come in to the National League they have to be classed as a British rider, if they want to go into the PL on a 3 point average they have to ride as a British rider and if they want their 2.5% average reduction each year they have to ride as a Brit. It's quite easy to grasp, if they are going to use these loopholes in the rules to better themselves that's fair enough and I can't blame them for doing so, however these loopholes should be closed. I'm against foreign riders in the NL and the BSPA are shooting themselves in the foot with regards to developing our own talent by letting a few slip through the net. It may only be one or two but they are spots which could be taken by British riders who would race for Britain if they ever got the sufficient standard.

Garrity has the potential to be a very good rider that's sure, he's got a long way to go though. As for Morris if he isn't going to ride for Britain then why was he allowed to ride in the NL on a 3 point average and to sign for Glasgow on a 3 point average. Such a shame that money can't be put into our young riders travelling abroad to these meetings, the experience is just what they and the future of our nations speedway needs.

He should be classed as British yes, but I wouldn't put him in the best 5.

Nick Morris rode in the NL as a Brit so should be selected to ride for our Under 19 side, the side should really be: Nick Morris Kyle Howarth Ash Morris Jake Knight Shane Hazelden Obviously thats if it was to be done by averages, I'm sure there are reasons the lads going have been selected though, hopefully they can put on a good show and with Wizzer behind them they have a great team manager and mentor.

Mason has certainly done a lot better than expected this season, fair play to him for that. Spot on, it's nothing to do with this forum, it's the fact it's too expensive why people stay away from these meetings and it is a real shame as the National League is a great product. The railings go all around the track and they stop fans going right up to the safety fence, there's nothing wrong with the track, it's a regulation that has to be fulfilled. Watering is always an issue at Rye, the track never seems to get the pre-meeting watering to keep the dust at bay that it needs, so the grading during the meeting is drawn out and nothing kills the atmosphere more than watching tractors go round for 10 minutes at a time every 2 heats. As for the Pies, Steak and Kidney is horrible

Where were ya mate? I never saw you, otherwise I'd have come said hello!

Don't take it away from Cardiff, the whole weekend is a fantastic experience, the pairs on the firday, then the GP on the saturday, coupled with two drunken nights out in Cardiff, what more could you want?

Www.hackneyhawks.co

He should but Len is stuck in his ways, which is a shame as it is damaging his profits, the meetings don't have to be free even, just cheaper to get into, it'll help the riders and the place has more atmosphere when there are actually fans inside the stadium!

Raiders meetings back in 04/05 used to draw crowds just as big, if not bigger than some rockets meetings have done this season.

Which is precisely what is already happening... From my point of view as a die hard fan of Rye House, rarely missing any meetings, PL or NL at Rye for the last 7 years, I have missed more this season at both levels than over the other years put together. It is all well and good having the "Don't come then and you won't have a team to support at all" attitude but that is where the sport is fundamentally wrong, it's blackmail, you don't get it in other sports, fans need to be appreciated and given reason to come back next week. The paying customer is the priority, without them there is no business and by that the Hackney 'revival' is not successful, which is a shame. If the side was still the Rye House Raiders (not Cobras, that has to be the worst team nickname ever) then Rye would be making a lot more money on the NL meetings.

The problem is, those few Hackney fans who are happy to see their team back on track are outnumbered by the Rye fans who aren't happy to see their name lost to the league. There won't be any new Hackney fans coming through the gates either because 1) There is no promotion of the side and 2) the side races nowhere near Hackney. This is a forum for people to post their views, the 'moaning' is just that and the fact it outnumbers the people happy to be 'mugged off' shows that something is wrong. The side are not paving the way for a new Hackney team to return, it's to lighten the load of meetings at Rye and give Lakeside more fixtures whilst also developing riders for both sides. I am behind the Hawks for that point but if the team are not drawing fans in that can only harm the riders. It'd be better to fill a stadium at cheaper entrance prices then have a few old codgers, 15 year old girls looking to take the riders behind the pits and some tumbleweed at £12 a pop.

I believe Ben Morley drops to reserve by virtue of not attaining an average in the NL this season so far, Shane and Magic are the only riders to put their averages up!

I've chosen to work rather than attend this meeting, enough said.

We rarely agree Malcolm, but you have hit the nail on the head here. The rules are Brits only, so unless he has a British passport he is an ineligible rider in the national league.

Give Niall Strudwick a go, the lad is commited, he is a steady rider too who will turn up at meetings and his scores will improve week on week he also leaves points for a senior reserve to be drafted in too. Hope John Resch makes a full and speedy recovery.

The National League is a fantastic product. The racing can be as good or even better than that served up in the Elite and Premier Leagues. There is no doubts about that. The problem is a lot of fans see it as a reserve level of racing. The Hackney name is clearly not working to bring fans through the gates at the moment, whether that is because of the price, the lack of interest in a team not racing under the Rye House/Lakeside banners or a combination of both, who knows. One thing is for certain, the promotion cannot be breaking even for Hawks meetings at Rye House, so to lower the admission price to £7/8 would be a gamble worth taking in my opinion, it would probably pay off, whilst the riders would be racing in front of a bigger crowd which can only be good for them. Promoters need to promote, taking an extra £1/2 from your existing fans each year to make your profit is not acceptable and alienates the supporters who are being made to pay the extra money.

The meeting was not as bad as the Belle Vue meeting a few weeks ago. I only attended because I won tickets to the Stevenage match in the afternoon so didn't have to pay to get in there. Plus the fact I can hear the bikes from my house and I always feel like i'm missing out on a Saturday night if I'm listening to the racing rather than watching it! My main issue was the lack of Bronze Helmet race. Darren Mallett was present, so why didn't he defend his crown?...