Ben91

All the best to Karl on his retirement, always thought he could have made it at a higher level than he ever reached, a very friendly, approachable rider. Shame we won't see him ride again for the time being.

Very interesting points from Dean, maybe this is where the problem lies, it is clear to see a lot of the young British lads who come through are more interested on the image and the little girls who follow them because they are a 'speedway rider' rather than progressing in the sport itself, that's why many amount to no more than second half riders. If these lads were shown how to prepare their own bikes and how that can save them money then they may progress better and further in the sport. On the points limit, it does need lowering, it doesn't dillute the product, it just encourages the use of more three point riders, especially in teams who want to use a top rider or two.

Running Rye and Lakeside NL teams separately will be better for crowds at both venues having a real home side to support whilst it means we gain another team in the NL numbers wise. Good luck to any Lakeside NL team if they do run a team at this level.

Auto Correct on my phone unfortunately, still nice that you noticed

How can you be involved with Speedway programmes with such terrible grammar and spelling? The Raiders nickname is a good one, the Cobras were christened that due to sponsorship and had some google clip art as a logo. Rye House Raiders or Rye House Cobras, what has a better ring to it? The last decent team to come out of Rye at NL level was the last Raiders side, hence their return being something to be excited about.

Yet another poster who lives on history, I have no problem, unless the truth that the Hackney 'experiment' has been a failure is a problem.

It probably will be, but change is needed or a lot of Rye fans won't be parting with their hard earned cash to watch each week.

Yawn, this isn't a match thread. Teams are built for a season, not one or two trips to Sheffield. You beat our side with 4 reserves in it, congratulations.

Will you stop about the bloody programme, it's all you hark on about. Lakeside may have branded the meetings as Hackney but they didn't fulfil all of those fixtures did they? The Hackney 'experiment' was no doubt a failure, both sets of promotions have to take some portion of the blame whilst of course on the flip side if people didn't want to go then no amount of promotion would have made them. I'm delighted that (as I suggested months ago) the Raiders nickname is coming back, it has certainly re-kindled my interest as the name means something to me and i'm sure other Rye fans will feel the same. I hope we go back to basics next year, track a team of youngsters and drop the admission prices so that the stadium has a crowd in it each week. I don't care if our NL team comes first or last, if we can bring some future stars through it will have done it's job.

Hawkins, really? Lens not one to drop riders but he has to go over the winter. Agree regarding Frampton, though it'd be good to keep him. I fully expect to see Neath, Boxall, Bowen and Nelson too, though we need changes. As for a number one, we probably won't go sign one but if we we're to I wonder who we'd go for?

It's early, I know but I'm bored on a Saturday afternoon and things are getting stale at Rye and need a shake up desperately. From this season's side, Neathy would be my only must keep rider for next year. Jordan, Steve and Tyson would also be worth keeping hold of. There could be good improvement in the latter two in particular. We should be making moves to try and sign Jason Garrity, whilst I'd like to see Adam Roynon or Jason Bunyan come in on averages they could no doubt increase. This would leave room to go out and get a decent number one as well. I've not done the maths, but it could look something like this: 1. 2. Nelson 3. Frampton 4. Boxall 5. Neath 6. Garrity 7. Bunyan/Roynon What are everyone's thoughts on who they would like to see at Rye next year?

That's the kind of team you can track if you blood young Brits, well done scunny, take a leaf out of their book other clubs, it could help Britain become a speedway force again in the future!

He's not dead...

Respect to that lad, drink driving apart!

Because you are going off the point I made Parsloes, how did Lakeside embrace the project more then Rye? I want facts, not "They produced a better programme." because the programme is not promoting the sport or club. Len Silver does charge too much for Speedway, be it PL or NL level but that isn't my point at all, I even said I wasn't defending him or making him out to be a saint but if it wasn't for him we'd have lost a National League speedway club mid season. It'd be fantastic for the sport to return to London I agree however.

I never claimed to know the story did I?... So basically Len stepped in and gave Cook and Vatcher half the Rye NL sides meetings... You have still not answered my question, just written an essay which I'm really not bothered about. Sometimes you have to accept you're wrong...

I totally agree Waco, however if there was no Rye NL team it would be terrible for British speedway IMO, especially with talents such as Morley, Hazelden, Owen and Freemantle, I doubt they would all be accommodated at other NL tracks if Rye wasn't running, whilst none are ready to step up full time to the Premier League, without NL riding to help them develop. In an ideal world, the Raiders will return, entrance fees will drop and fans will come back from the wilderness to watch Rye House's very own National League side.

The programme doesn't promote the team as it is on sale at the meeting, which you won't be at unless you've been taken by a friend, or seen the meetings promoted somewhere... I agree the Rye programmes are terrible but they are really a minor thing in the grand scheme of things. If that's all you've got then you're clearly in the wrong. Hackney haven't gone bust, they are no longer running at Lakeside, so how that's Len's fault I have no idea, in fact if the Hawks weren't racing half their meetings at Rye then the Hawks would be bust now. I'm not saying Len is fantastic but in this case putting the blame solely at his door is a very untrue and stupid assumption.

How did Lakeside promote better than Rye then, facts to back up your point please.

How you can call the short comings of both promotions Len Silvers fault is beyond me. How people can suggest the Hawks racing solely at Lakeside would have made them successful is also a lot of rubbish (stronger word should be used but it's a family forum ). Hopwood (Who is now a Rye asset) and Freemantle aside, all the Hawks had previous Rye connections. Whilst Owen and Hazelden are both Hammers assets, if there wasn't the Hawks they would both be Rye NL riders this season anyway. It is a real shame the venture hasn't worked, it could have been fantastic for both parties if promoted properly, the message to both promotions should really be, you only get out what you put in. I hope Rye will continue to track a NL team, in the form of the Raiders (Not Cobras, such a poor team nickname) from 2012 onwards and carry on bringing through the young Brits.

From a realistic view, this was never going to work and it wasn't a way of re-creating the Dudley model either. It was a way for Rye to lose a few fixtures to ease congestion and for Lakeside to add a few to keep a steady flow of weekly speedway. The way the Sheffield/Scunthorpe team have been named is silly IMO, however it is better than trying to bring fans in from a track which has no real link to either track, with the the exception of Len Silver promoting at Rye. There were no plans to get Hackney back in to Hackney itself and this is probably what kept a lot of people away, the Dudley fans are a rare breed, there were lots at Rye tonight for the British Under 19 Final, if the meeting wasn't at Rye, I wouldn't have attended, so it shows their commitment. There was no Hackney merchandise either and programmes were not even Hackney programmes, little things like that just add to the mickey mouse approach this was unfortunately given. If it was approached the right way, things could have been a great success and the partnership between Rye and Lakeside would have blossomed with riders being able to progress from the NL to the EL without having to club hop. I doubt this will signal the end of NL at Rye from next season, however I'd love to see the Raiders name brought back, Raiders meetings always used to draw decent crowds and having sides with riders such as Boxall, Allen, Bowen, Mear, Burchatt, Betson, Halsey and Powell, all who have gone on to PL at least helped get the fans excited.

If your boss told you it was safe to stick your head in the oven would you? There is a difference between tricky and untraceable conditions, if the riders felt unsafe racing then they are within their rights to not race.

Not at all mate, nothing wrong with a decent speedway debate, we both have differing opinions perhaps, but that's life and I'm sure we both want what is best for the sport in Britain because it would be terrible to see Britain drop back any further than we already have done on the international stage. If it does happen it will send the sport into a bigger decline than it is already in in the UK. So these lads need all the support they can get from the authorities.

I think you are reading my post wrongly mate, whilst the loopholes are there then good luck to the Aussie lads for using them to their advantage, also like you say, it would be hard to close them due to the lads having dual nationality and they have the right to choose, my point being, if they choose Australia then they should have to join the PL on a 5 point average. They make their bed so should have to lie in it. It would be naive to say if the 2/3 spots filled by young Aussies who will go on to ride for Aus were taken by Brits it would turn around the fortunes of British speedway but every little has an impact further down the line, granted these lads will go on to ride PL anyway but there's no reason they shouldn't start there rather than going through the NL. Back on topic, hopefully the lads who are going can come away from the meeting with a good result and valuable experience. 'Ommer um

Which is exactly the point, these riders should be told if they want to come in to the National League they have to be classed as a British rider, if they want to go into the PL on a 3 point average they have to ride as a British rider and if they want their 2.5% average reduction each year they have to ride as a Brit. It's quite easy to grasp, if they are going to use these loopholes in the rules to better themselves that's fair enough and I can't blame them for doing so, however these loopholes should be closed. I'm against foreign riders in the NL and the BSPA are shooting themselves in the foot with regards to developing our own talent by letting a few slip through the net. It may only be one or two but they are spots which could be taken by British riders who would race for Britain if they ever got the sufficient standard.