Grachan

What benefit would Poole get from Holder being in reserve? Surely they would be stronger if was riding as a heatleader and beating heatleaders, while having Newman and Ellis at reserve capable of beating other reserves.

I wasn't there, but from the descriptions on here I'd say it is exactly what speedway need more of to stop it becoming a sport watched by 200 people in deck chairs supping on flasks of coffee.

No, it is you who is missing the point. He should have been excluded. The ref got it wrong. But that is not the same as cheating.

So now we gave a Leicester fan threatening to go to the police because Doyle gestured the crowd. For Heaven's sake!!

Well, if that was the case, that would have been up to the ref to call that. I don't have the current rules to hand, but it's always been that if a rider is withdrawn then a reserve replacement can be used. In this case it seems Swindon could have even used IRR but didn't. So to say they were 'cheating' (a favourite, much over used and usuaslly ridiculous term on this forum) is nonsense. People love to come up with this rubbish on here. They example you give of Zagar being one. Another classic was Poole were 'cheating' because Newman wasn't wearing goggles, when clearly that would have put him at a disadvantage. I'm sure there are plenty of other examples too. Nyah nyah, cheating Aces. Nyah nyah cheating Pirates. Nyah nyah cheating Robins. So it goes on ad nauseam and, as ever, it's rubbish.

So your theory is that by pulling Tungate on Thursday and not using IRR, thus losing a match at home that they otherwise would have won, Swindon were cheating. Brilliant. #typicaldropacogagain

...as the reaction of some people to him missing Saturday's meeting proves.

It almost certainly did strengthen Swindon, although, having said that, R/R scored 7 and Tungate scored 7 on his previous visit there. This is the thing about Thursday. Tungate withdrew from the meeting and some people are saying IRR was available but Swindon never used it. Do the injury is clearly genuine, otherwise why would he withdraw? Nice to ear he was on parade. Do people honestly believe he would be there with the side if he had been dropped against his own will?

The most likely truth is that he shouldn't have ridden last night. Who can say what effect his absence had anyway. He is - just as we were warned when we signed him - very hot and cold. He has been a match winner in some matches this year and frustratingly poor in others. His score at Leicester early in the year, btw, was 7, albeit from a second string berth.

I see nothing to suggest otherwise. Tungate withdrew from Thursday's meeting, possibly costing Swindon the match. It's clear he has a problem or that wouldn't have happened. I can't comment on the extent of the injury as I know nothing on that. The same as you.

Apologies. I thought you were having a laugh. I over estimated you.

He didn't get a maximum at Somerset. He scored 2,2,0,0. And he tweeted afterwards that his shoulder was still paying him up and he needed to rest it. He also pulled out of his last 2 rides at Swindon te night before. Don't let Steve lead you on. He's just trying it on.

So let's see. We were cheating when we won at Belle Vue because Tungate got 15. We only lost to Leicester at home because Tungate got injured and we didn't use IRR. We only won at Leicester because Tungate was injured so we were cheating again. Got a lot to answer for, that Tungate.

Whilst you are talking a load of old Bolek Proch, I agree with what you say about how it would go mental if it was Poole. Anyway, it's nice to see you and the anti-Swindon Coventry fan forming a mutual appreciation society. It's nice for you that you have someone who agrees with you.

Did I? Do you mean by referring to British fans who used to support the USA as idiots? If so, then my own opinion is that they were. It used to really wind me up.

Only the same sort of idiots who used to support the USA against Britain in the 80s. Thankfully there is less of that about these days and people support British riders more than they did then, although this topic does show there are still some about. Personally it's always the British riders I support in GPs. As a Swindon fan it's nice if Jason Doyle does well, but it is Tai, Chris Harris and whoever is the wild card that I will be rooting for.

Fair enough. Doesn't change the point being made though.

There certainly seems a degree of ambiguity about whether or not Swindon could have used R/R on Thursday. One thing' however, is 100% certain and it is this. Had Swindon used Doyle and Morris in Tungate's last two rides, beaten Leicester, and then Tungate had ridden on Friday at Somerset, there would have been no end of peopke on here accusing Swindon of cheating.

Definitely true. Swapping reserves and second strings round is just shifting the points around. I said the same thing when Swindon were having big scores at reserve. What does cause problems, though, is those big scoring reserves then being forced into heatleader positions. That's when there are points dropped. This race format really is a shambles now that reserves can move up. Who was Kurtz guesting for btw? (That's a proper qustion. I don't know.)

If ever a match was lost in the first 3 heats it was this one! We actually outscored Poole over the remainder of the match so I guess restored some pride despite failing to get a point. Well done Poole on their double but well done Swindon for fighting back well in both matches.

Andersen was first in heat 11. That was the heat where he got a second warning and was fined. Heat 13 he moved again. The ref said more than one rider moved so did nothing but call a restart. Hans then moved again in the restart! The ref let it go, but he came last anyway. Hans not being excluded in heat 11 did effect the result.

Good meeting and a good crowd. Found myself locked out of the car park and having to find somewhere to park. Some stretched out races but some decent races in between. Unfair to criticise Tungate. With him and Sedgeman forced to ride as heatleaders Swindon were never going to win, but fair play to Sedgy who adapted to the role very well. Poole were far from convincing. Even with the line up as it was it took a few exclusions and the bizarre decision not to exclude Andersen from heat 11 for them to do it. Why was he not excluded? A rider gets a warning for moving at the start. Moves again, so gets a fine but isn't excluded? Can't figure that one out at all. If Nick had been a heatleader and Rohan a second string Swindon would have won, I'm sure. Poole might kick on now, but will still need more thsn this if they are to be the team everyone expected.

Only if Swindon use a facility.

It's not as big an effect as you might think. If he scores 21 then 3 of those rides would, presumably, be against heatleaders. So he would gave scored 9 of those anyway. Look at the points Tungate scored at reserve. There's no point having someone like Holder there when there are other riders who can get big points against reserves, leaving Holder to beat the heatleaders. If he is on 21 max form, you are basically losing 2 of his heatleader rides if he is beating the likes of Nielsen at reserve.

It makes a big difference. In theory Tungate and Sedgman could beat the riders Grajczonek and Morris are against. We gain little from that. But Tungate and Sedgeman will struggle against heatleaders. So we lose out there. So it weakens us. Holder would be wasted at reserve. I don't see how they would gain from it. You want a reserve that can win the protected heats, but there is no point having someone who can win heatleader races down there.