speedyguy

Here's some more from google - I just keyed in Crystal Palace National Sports Centre: "The track was built on land which was formerly occupied by the football stadium which was built in 1894/5 and which staged a few early FA Cup Finals. The track was originally 440y cinder and opened in May 1964 - the same year as the whole National Sports Centre complex. It was upgraded to a 3M 'Tartan' synthetic track with an opening date of 19th May 1968 and was the first full track of this type not just in the UK but in the whole of Europe and also the first 400m track to be built in the UK. It was resurfaced in 1993 with Polytan PUR and all the runways were coloured blue. The stadium underwent a £1.5 million upgrade in 2004 with the track and base mat being completely renewed again with Polytan. The track opened again on 20th Jul 2004. There is also an indoor straight next to the track and an external throwing area although this is not suitable for competition as the landing area is uphill and is apparently rarely used. Crystal Palace has traditionally been the home of British Athletics and after a few years break from staging top-class meets, the British Grand Prix returned here in 1999. In the late 1800s and early 1900s there were a succession of running tracks at Crystal Palace but in slightly different locations to the present one. Details of these ones are in the Crystal Palace entry in the old tracks section. A speedway track around the FA Cup Final ground was opened on 19th May 1928 but it is not thought that this track was ever used for athletics."

I tried google 'Racing at Crystal Palace - a brief history' and came up with this: "Towards the end of 1927, Lional Wills (of WD&HO Wills Tobacco) approached Mockford and Smith with a suggestion to try the new Australian sport of speedway at Crystal Palace to supplement the path racing. The football stadium, home of Corinthians football club, was refurbished to provide an oval track at a cost of £5000, and some 30,000 people turned up for the first meeting and within a year some 70 tracks had sprung up throughout the country. In 1929 a league was formed and The Glaziers finished 4th, with Stamford Bridge being champions. By 1934, crowds were falling and having been refused floodlights for evening meetings, Mockford and Smith moved the team to New Cross, and the track fell into disrepair."

I agree. That adequately sums up the location of the track. This is what I also understand.

All excellent stuff - but who was Geoff Allott?

Some of this information is in the 'Speedway Star Digest' published in 1961, 1962, 1963. I think though they only gave totals for each competition for the various riders. I am fairly certain there are no averages or bonus points included. No differential about the number of races riders competed in. At this period, speedway wasn't based on calculators!

The mid-night inspiration came to me: the name of the photographer was Nat Gould, who operated along with George Pead in the Kentish Mercury photographic in the 1960s and 1970s. Additionally, I remain convinced that the athletics track is the base of the old speedway. I was told many, many, many years ago (yes as far back as that!) that when war started, after the 1940 Easter speedway meeting, the track site was taken over and used by the army iuntil 1946. It then, apparently, was unsused until it was decided to build the National Sports Centre, into which the speedway track became absorbed as the foundation/base for the athletics track. I have never seen or heard of a plaque in the park to mark speedway taking place there. Again, try the Crystal Palace Foundation - they have a museum at the top of Anerley Hill and you can also trace more about them via our old friend 'google'. Just as a matter of interest, when the National League Third Division was first put forward in 1947, one-time West Ham team manager Frank Arnold tried to enter a Crystal Palace team - this time based at Selhurst Park (home of Crystal Palace FC). This failed to get going after protests by local rseidents about noise, etc...the old arguments anti-speedway.

About 35 years ago I was standing on the athletics track. A guy came up and asked me "are you aware that we were standing where the old speedway track once was?" He pointed out certain landmarks that he remembered from when he rode there in the 'special holiday meetings of the 1930s that Buster Buckand used to promote. For my part, I have always accepted that the speedway does form the base for the present athletics track. I cannot offhand remember who this guy was but I do know that he worked as a photographer for the old 'Kentish Mercury' then based in Deptford Broadway, SE8. If his name comes to me "in the middle of the night" I will post it. Have you tried the Crystal Palace Foundation to establish where the track was?

Further thought: still positive that a Geoff Allott was named rider in the late 1940s - but could it have been Guy in a name switch?

Passed by the athletics track at Crystal Palace this afternoon. I always think of it as the site of the old speedway. Any further progress on your articles? Good luck in your research. Is it for the Crystal Palace Foundation by any chance?

I am now positive that Tommy was Guy's older brother. That means which of these was Geoff related to - or was he their younger brother? Come on Norbold and help us out please!

The Allott family are well known in the sport - and deservedly so. Tommy, Guy, Nicky and Adam. But wasn't there another - Geoff who was a second half rider at Sheffield in the late 1940s? And just what is the family structure - I am (surprise surprise for me?) a little confused. Tomy and Guy brothers, then how is the famous clan made up?

Here'a the race in question: Novices Scratch Race Coy, B.Harris, Vic Collins, (Robinson, D.Gray) It was on August 26 1946 at Plough Lane when visiting Wembley beat the Dons 55-53 in a London Cup match. There's quite a piece on Vic Collins pre-war and post-war Southampton career in the late Ron Hoare's excellent book 'Speedway Panorama' (published 1978).

Odd happenings of established riders appearing in junior events is nothing new. In 1946, Vic Collins rode in a novices race at Wimbledon. On paper, just a fact. Except that... Collins had started racing in 1928, and after that rode for Southampton in the Southern League, then various National League divisions until 1939. I believe he also had a spell in the mid-1930s with Clapton. More so, Collins also rode in a semi-international event in the sport's early days. It's recorded on Brian Collins' excellent international results forum. So, I just wonder, why did he ride in a post-war novices' race at Plough Lane? It has hallmarks of what happens these days in the Conference League - or did until a couple of seasons ago. What hapened to Collins after that 1946 novice ride at Wimbledon? In 1947, he was back as captain of Southampton - a side who he had briefly captained in 1929 when just 17 years old. In 1948, an injury led to Collins' retirement. Does anyone else remember Vic Collins? I believe he owned a garage in the Southampton area at one time.

Many thanks. Just wanted a confirmation that Wal raced after ending his links with Hackney.

After ending his senior career with Hackney in the 1964 season, the then 52-year-old rode for both Ipswich and Weymouth in the Metropolitan League. Does anyone have details of his scoring ratio for these teams? And when did he last appear in a speedway race? Apparently, not in a second half race at Hackney!

I have been searching and found that Mick Piquet rode second-half at Wimbledon in 1946 - thanks to the Speedway Reseearcher. Haven't gone beyond that into other seasons. Hope that this is the same guy.

Harold Carder knew how to spell his surname. That's how it was painted n his bike's nameplate. It's since then in various references that he's sometimes named as 'Carter.' Now what do we know about his links to Poole and Southampton?

I remember Harold Carder as the rider-promoter of Ringwood in its Southern Area League days in the mid-1950s. He later became part of the managerial staff at Eastbourne after originally joining them as a rider when his club dropped out of the league. Carder owned a garage in Bournemouth. I think that Gil Cox (also known as Gil Graham and Gil Grayham) worked for him. Can anyone tell me if Carder also rode in second-half events at Southampton and Poole? When he rode for Ringwood and Eastbourne, Carder was probably in his early 40s. In some quarters he has been named as Harold Carter - but I am positive that his correct surname is Carder.

Most number of brothers in a meeting. Not Australia but South Africa. Somewhere I read of a meeting with five brothers involved - Doug, Jack, Harry, Allan and Bob Serrurier. Beat that! Must have been at the Old Barn, outside Johannesburg, in early 1946.

WA State Championship. Believe the first two Englishmen to win were Arthur Atkinson (West Ham) in 1934 and Wal Morton (Wimbledon) in 1936. There have been others since.

Remember Brian Brett well in the days when I used to travel all the way from Surrey by motor-scooter to watch him ride at Rye House. He was a team mate in those days in the late 1950s not only of Mike Broadbank, but also of Gerry King, Dingle Brown and Pete Sampson, among others. Very sad news indeed.

Have a vague recollection of this name: I think (offhand) that it was Nigel. Will try looking elsewhere (not Stenners!) and if I find anything will come back. Perhaps our good friend Norbold can advise? Or maybe Ian Perkin who wrote a history of the Dons a couple of years ago.

I am certain that you are on the right track there. As I read old material on various sports, it is surnames only in most case. And there was a time when we only had an initial in main articles like cricket's W Hammond, football's S Matthews, etc. Certainly, not the personalisation of competitors to what we know today. It was just a distant thought then. Still it's interesting to see that riders like Hamley rode for Bradford in 1946, Horne for Belle Vue, Pennell for Newcastle etc. Trouble is it doesn't mean much to someone researching these teams 60 years on. As it happens, I do know these riders full names - but no thanks to Stenners!

Yes. Basse Hveem was an all-time great. Remember him riding briefly for West Ham - must have been around 1953. He was really fast.

Another interesting book on motor sport at Crystal Palace, although not carrying much reference to speedway, is 'Motor Racing at Crystal Palace - London's Own circuit' by S S Collins. It does mention motorcycle path racing which took place in the Palace grounds in 1927. Meetings were promoted by Fred Mockford, who later promoted both Crystal Palace and New Cross speedways. Two references are www.veloce.co.uk and www.velocebooks.com The book when published about a year ago cost £12.99