manchesterpaul

Very nice to such a good crowd. Incidentally, for anybody watching this on Premier Sports and filling in a scorecard be aware that the replacement commentator has just covered the last two races oblivious to two tactical substitution changes. Rune Holta in heat 7 and Hans Andersen in heat 8. I realise they don't get verbal feeds from the track, but that's all the more reason to be looking at the screen graphics. There is a rider line-up at the start of the race, all throughout the race there is a nice sized graphic of the positions and a very large graphic detailing the heat result at the end of the race. Unfortunately, the commentator was quite unaware of the changes. Just pointing this out as a heads up to viewers, only as with Sky, one doesn't like to criticize too much as one is so glad to be watching the sport.

Surely it's a lot harder to have to calculate the permutations in one's head? Therefore, to be able to throw a 'quick glance' at a large full screen view of a spreadsheet with the correct info in plain sight would be easier. By the way Spook please read as well my reply to crumpiefan below which contains a very pretinent point. Anyway on to your own observations, this is where i'm stunned (not at yourself lol). Again, i have zilch education in use of computers, programming or spreadsheets. Everything i learn is on a need to do basis. My girlfriend will often chuckle becasue i can actually get computers to do all sorts of amazing things, but at the same time be oblivious to a simple shortcut method in a word processor (because i don't work as a secretary etc.). But, if i on such an uneducated basis (computer wise) can provide a speadsheet that DOES ACCOMPLISH the calculations you mention above and present them in plain sight, why can't a professional broadcasting organization like Sky create or access the same? I don't even use Excel, i use a free open source spreadsheet, and i haven't created a masterpiece. One doesn't need a masterpiece to do these calculations within a speadsheet. Again i state it isn't complex mathematics. My spreadsheet automatically sorts and colour codes the qualifiers and any unable to qualify despite having races to come. You simply glance at the screen. Why on earth with even a simple spreadsheet would yourself or anyone have to bury your head in the screen?, the spreadsheet should automatically sort for you and colour code too. Have a glance at my SGP MiniMax racacard for the British Grand Prix and on that you will see how my interactive spreadsheet displays the heats (with accumulative meeting and series scores for each rider in every race). Then take into account my interactive version also instantly displays the rider grid sorted by race wins etc. etc. Plus it also has the overall series standings instantly sorted too. There is absolutely no need to study the screen and think, it's all done for you. All one has to do is type in 3,2,1,0 or whatever mishap befell a rider regards engine failures, falls or exclusions. If he's unfortunate to be struck by lightning then type in whatever word you wish such as zapped (lol) in the heat and it won't effect the speadsheet calculations. Indeed it will recognize that not finishing because one was struck by lightning is worth less than a last placed zero points finish and sort accordingly hee hee. I've tried not to mention the name of the software in order to give them the benefit of the doubt. As we all know it's human input error that is often the cause of errors in output of a computer. Although, even allowing for that, i do wonder at times if it works anywhere as well as my own quickly cobbled together version. Plus, of course, it could well be that the information from the software isn't being passed on to the commentators. So, i'll not decry the software without being in full possession of the facts. Why does Sam not correct the commentators or even fill us in with the information of what is at stake a lot more than he barely does now? At the end of the day they have a studio team and they frequently make reference to Sam and his software etc. Yet we still find ourselves with incorrect information and the comical tell-tale sudden hesitation in the voice of the presenters when something clearly isn't right and often accompanied by puzzled looks. So shame on Sky if the correct information isn't being passed on to the viewers. I forgot to mention that in my original post, but let's be clear regarding some of the blunders last night (and in previous years) one did not need a spreadsheet to know that certain riders were already out of the meeting or had already qualified for the semi-finals. It was as you say yourself, and is often the case, that one just glances down at a basic racecard and can see why someone is out or in. No calculations needed it's staring you in the face. Again my gripe and blame isn't aimed at the commentators as they have a lot of things to do. I certainly don't think i would be able to do their job. But it's up to the production team to have information fed to them. Whether that is by giving them a monitor with a spreadsheet 'like mine' lol that at a glance shows you what's what or someone who has one and then passes the info to them on a slip of paper or as a(nother) voice in their headphones. Of course, i totally agree that it is good to have Sky showing speedway. I certainly wouldn't pick a broadcast to pieces regarding how many times a commentator stumbles over his words or repeats a phrase regularly. I always strongly suggest that those who over criticize such things to get a tape recorder and commentate on a couple of meetings. Then play it back see how often one is stumbling over one's words and often talking broken biscuits. Also, see how many catchphrases you end up with. Then theres the silence to fill inbetween the actual racing. Do take into consideration though that you won't have to hold a conversation with a co-commentator and have people talking to you and directing you to do things at the same time. Of course i'm grateful to Sky for speedway and i've often praised their broadcasts too. However, let's remember it's a two-way deal, it isn't charity bestowed upon us. I only purchased Sky originally because of them broadcasting speedway. Accessing their 'exclusive' coverage of football was never a problem, I never missed a Manchester United match in any competition for years thanks to high quality streaming. Sky now get from me monthly the considerable fees for the absolute total package they have. Whilst that is because i follow other sports such as Mixed Martial Arts, Nascar, American Football, American Ice Hockey and via the various channels practically every football tournament in the world and all of the top leagues, additionally we'll watch the film channels too etc....it is only because they show speedway that i initially purchased Sky. I'm sure many other fans have gone on to subscribe to more packages over time after getting it solely for speedway originally. Therefore, i don't think it's too much to ask that they provide their viewers with CORRECT vitally important information ahead of the semi-finals. Anyways, i truly enjoyed last night and thanks to Sky for broadcasting it WITH a studio team too. I can only barely imagine how good it must have been to have actually been there in the crowd at the meeting. Glad all those who went undoubtedly got an enjoyable reward for toddling along to the GP.

For me personally, as it has been for many years, it was stress free. Thanks to my home-made spreadsheet i have always been, and clearly STILL am, light years ahead of Sky when it comes to the various permutations in play. It gives a huge added boost to the enjoyment when one is aware of the significance of every point. Due to the amount of tasks they have to do, i've rarely put the blame on the commentators. In the past it was clear they were repeatedy being fed erroneous information or none at all. I was always critical of the fact that they apparently didn't have a backroom staff member to keep the scores and feed that through to the commentators. None of it is rocket science it's very simple basic maths and count back on number of wins and second places etc. I have also been very critical of the fact that it is easy to cobble together a speadsheet that WORKS and provides ALL the important info at a glance, yet they don't seem to have one that does the job, or alternatively it's a case of they can't type in the race results correctly!!!. There is no need for mental arithmetic or manually working out what's what. For years i've used my own interactive speadsheet and have been miles ahead of the Sky team. Fill in the race result 3,2,1,0 (and whatever letters you use to denote exclusions, falls and engine failures etc.) and the spreadsheet automatically updates the meeting and series standings. In addition to the set rider order, as per printed programme, the rider score grid is also displayed after each race in points order. Riders who are level on points are further sorted by race wins, second and third places as well as non-finishers which counts below a fourth place in a tiebreaker. A rider's acccumulative meeting and series points is shown next to them for every race. Hell, it even automatically fills in the draw order for the semi-finals, so that eradicates that particular hurdle for the Sky team. As far as i am aware Sam Ermolenko is in charge of the spreadsheet they use. He certainly plugs it frequently enough. The year before and last year was farcical with absolute howlers being made. They had no clue about the significance of the last round of races (and earlier ones) for individual riders. They again and again gave incorrect information on the qualification scenarios and were oblivious to exciting stakes within races. All of which meant most of the viewers at home were too. It transpired after one infamous mix up that the software makers blamed Sam for putting in the wrong information when the Sky team had prattled away about a semi-final qualifier only to be startled he wasn't there to pick up his gate card as he hadn't qualified. I've mentioned at least a couple of times this season in these forums that this year Sky seemed to have really improved in their awareness of what is at stake in races and also giving us timely and correct information. They have been getting the scores right and knowing most of the time what is at stake for a rider in a race. However, tonight was truly awful. Such very important information about who is out of the running for the semi-finals and who has already qualified etc. I'm fairly sure nobody involved in the main Sky broadcasting team ever reads these threads (hmmmm so that's why they never took me up on my free offer of my spreadsheet lol), but maybe Flagrag who seems to have tons of inside knowledge can enlighten us? He's a regular poster here. 1.What on earth is going on why can't they have a grasp of the simple knowledge as to who is already out of the running and who has already qualified for the semi-finals?. 2.Why do they throughout the meeting get the overall standings and so many other things wrong that with the aid of a speadsheet should be in plain view?. 3.Do they not use the speadsheet anymore or are they failing to pass on the information to the commentators and leaving it for them to work out themselves?. 4.Where are you Flagrag please clarify? lol.

I did so within seconds of it appearing and came back to let you know but you're faster than you think, as after starting to type my reply i see you've also updated your post!

Not at all, one would hope that an event of world championship quality would not only apply to the riders. All aspects of it should be at the highest level of their particular field and that includes the people involved in ensuring as near as can be done the four gates to be relatively level. Anyway, i'm just glad to see that as i stated the good racing did indeed come along. An entertaining meeting overall in my eyes.

Thanks to Sky for bringing us the meeting but......an evening of returning to the bad old days (only last year) by being clueless of riders already out of the semi-finals and unaware of those already qualified has just hilariously been topped by.......despite not riding in the meeting Artem Laguta in their overall standings has gone from 10 points to 30!!! UPDATE That last blooper might not have been Sky's as the new graphics they just put up has Laguta correct. Still quite unforgivable their earlier muddles though lol.

The manner of Hancock's win surprised me. Great credit to him and don't think there can be any doubts now that he's in it to win it for sure.

To me it seemed Emil was (barely) holding on but when the handlebars hit him that caused him to come off instantly? He may well have come off anyway, but certainly when he got chinned that was the last straw regarding keeping occupancy of his seat. Shocking that the race wasn't stopped for an unsatisfactory start mind lol.

Additionally Holder HAS qualified, they might not tell you that or know it. Also, Crump had qualified too because of having beat Kolodziej earlier in the meeting.

Someone update Sky that Gollob is out. UPDATE Oh for goodness sake Sky get your act together, they still a race later not got a clue. Gollob is ALREADY OUT! Zetterstrom was ALREADY ahead of Gollob with more second places.

Not singling yourself out personally Alan as you are one of many early posters who make the same mistake repeatedly regarding such comments as "business as usual" and "when will they ever learn?" When will early posters ever learn that after thousands upon thousands of meetings over decades upon decades the initial heats can often contain little passing. As a speedway meeting goes on one often gets an increase in overtaking. So yes, thankfully it is business as usual and woweeeeeee some more fantastic racing just now.

Very decent and well-mannered of you (and all others). By the way, try not to do what i am so still likely to do, that is, miss the first hour because of the earlier start time this week. I am going to set as many clocks, watches and anything that beeps to remind me. I'll set the microwave timer to cook something in advance because that beeps when it is done. So got to read up on how to make a very slow burning fuse (lasting several hours) which will reach a bundle of newspaper placed under a smoke alarm, they do indeed beep loudly.

OK put them online so AVAILABLE as of NOW! You can directly download them from the top of the following page. MiniMax 2011 BRITISH Grand Prix Racecard Basic Version MiniMax 2011 BRITISH Grand Prix Racecard Thank you Dornier and all, you're welcome.

Available in the afternoon following the draw (Friday) are the TWO different versions of the MiniMax Racecard. You can directly download them from the top of the following page and as ever no advertising etc. cluttering up the card. MiniMax 2011 BRITISH Grand Prix Racecard Basic Version MiniMax 2011 BRITISH Grand Prix Racecard Just a reminder to our overseas friends that this Grand Prix is starting an hour earlier than the previous ones at 4pm UTC/GMT (5pm BST).

Yeah i saw that after i had posted here, thanks anyway for the confirmation.

When are we likely to know for certain if he will or won't ride?.I always do the SGP racecard as early as i can on the Friday afternoon. Is it a case of he if fails to turn up for practice he then can't ride?. I'm sure his replacement would like a reasonable amount of notice in advance too.

I was fairly busy whilst watching it so it seemed to fly by for me. It certainly had some good bits of racing in. Good evening all and all our Gods willing see you back here next week.

Aww that's too much to ask, he's still on his honeymoon! Very good team riding, particularly in Heat 7 when the opposition pre-race might have expected an advantage or shared heat.

Many thanks and glad you take a glance or two at them. I know from the page hits on the server they are indeed very popular. As i mentioned on the actual webpage, i don't normally introduce them until the season is a fair way in. The reason for that is it would be like doing a football Premier League 'extrapolation' (so hate using that word sounds very technical lol) after say four matches and a newly promoted or weaker team has played Manchester United, Chelsea, Arsenal and another top team. Once a season is a third of the way in for example the fixture quality evens out. Unfortunately, the National League is unlikely to ever be as streamlined and organized as a top sport's fixtures with regards regularity. That's all fine as i'm sure we're all grateful just for young riders to get a chance to ride competitively. But, i've got to admit, it was the reason why i strongly considered (and am reconsidering) using the Projected Points column on the National League table. Although i've used them privately for years, i never used them on, as you rightly point out, such a small league with slow-starting unequal fixtures. The main difference and pulling power of the MiniMax tables is their unique layout and formatting. The 'Projected Points' just being an additional, and with a usable number of matches having been ridden, valuable guide as to the true state of the current standings. However, the way the season is shaping up it looks like the NL will be exceptionally out of sync until the closing stages. Even if i do withdraw the projected points from the National League table the MiniMax tables will still be a far superior table as one can take in key info at a glance due to it's layout and presentation of stats such as home and away percentage of available points gained and average match scores etc. No way would i ever factor in anything that would involve a personal judgement of the quality of the opposition. It would be to (rightly) contentious and of no interest to others, or me lol. To add a mathematical strength of opposition judgement wouldn't work for many reasons. The NFL in America use a very compicated formula, however, they can only apply it at the end of the season.

I did make the point that the National League has only had a few fixtures. Unlike the other two leagues there won't be a great deal of data to make firm assessments for quite a while yet. Obviously when the Islanders (note i didn't say 'if' lol) start picking up away points it will instantly be reflected in the relevant stats. The actual main feature of the MiniMax tables is the way it presents the traditional table with key facts within your instant line of sight and info such as race points in an easy to comprehend format. Didn't remotely intend to atack your club as such in using the word 'apalling', but it does fit the scores. It was a slight oversight on my behalf that i didn't have time to see who they had ridden bearing in mind they've only had two matches away. I don't even criticize the imbalance of fixtures in the league as it's a wonderful league to have in the sport.

After glancing at the 'MiniMax' National League table which portrays the key stats in a clearly defined manner there are some interesting observations to be had now that a lot more fixtures have been raced seeing it is mid June. Dudley, too be honest, are showing signs they are THE team right now. The false table toppers of the 'couldn't be separated at birth' duo of Scunthorpe and Sheffield are actually in a battle, not only with Dudley, but also Stoke and to a lesser extent Belle Vue, Mildenhall...ok and lesser still...Hackney for places in the standings. It's still early days in the National League with regards to fixtures completed but certainly Dudley and also Stoke have acheived a good tally of available away points. Away from home apalling average scores by Isle Of Wight (35-56) and Newport (32-61) hardly make them prime box office material for the clubs hosting matches against them. But so long as everyone appreciates the National League is/should mainly be about giving riders racing experience and any challenge for a league triumph is a bonus, then all IS good.

Will i go blind if i do??? I'd feel too guilty doing that now, the ladies have just cooked us a good meal. Our night of sport and festivities continues on to 5am with Mixed Martial Arts (UFC) coming up in a few hours. So got to pay the loved ones some attention. Big relief, on the whole, we had a very good Grand Prix. One can't expect tons of passing in every race simply from the point of view they are the top riders in the sport and don't make that many mistakes. I'm absolutely well chuffed with the evening's entertainment so far. We've even got two newcomers to the sport here and they loved it.

WHAT A SPORT! WHAT A SUPERB SPORT!

I sooo can't check that link out until my girlfriend leaves for work in a few hours lol. I sure will though.

The progression is wins, seonds, thirds and fourth places ahead of non-finishes. Chris Harris only had one of those whilst Nikki Pedersen had two. So their head-to-head match-up wasn't a factor.