norbold

I've just checked and they're not there yet. I could e-mail them to you if you wish. I also have some of Hackney. I said on another thread that there was still some of the stadium there the last time i was there(10years ago).Part of the park included some of the terracing from one of the bends.There was also some gate houses or something. Wasn't there also a bit of the Palace track/stadium?Thought there was a Crystal Palace tour once a month or so that took you all around the whole site of the exhibition,including the dinosaurs:unsure: <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I haven't been to New Cross for some time (too painful ) but I don't think anything has changed since your last visit, iris. I don't know about the Crystal Palace tour.

Yes he was.

You're right TMW, he doesn't know! Oh well, a trip to the Family Records Centre in Islington should sort it out...

Yes.

You're right Star Lady. It is by Carl Teike. Sorry to mislead you, Jim, with my guess at Alford.

The 1949 Who's Who gives it as 1911. I've e-mailed Mike Kemp to ask if he knows the exact date!

It's probably by Kenneth Alford. He wrote every British march going!

I've got photos of New Cross, Harringay, West Ham and Norwich. I have sent them to the www.speedwayplus.co.uk site mentioned above, so they should be there, though I haven't checked to see if they are. Harringay is a Sainsbury's; West Ham and Norwich are housing estates; Lea Bridge is part of an industrial estate; London White City is the BBC; Stamford Bridge is home to a little known football club called Chelsea; Crystal Palace is an athletics track; New Cross is part housing and part park.

The Wembley book is due out next March I think.

Yes, sorry, you're absolutely right Jim. It was six team matches I was thinking of.

Sorry, lejon, I don't really know how many were at New Cross's re-opening. Actually they re-opened in 1959 with 6 "open" meetings; four team matches and two individual trophies. I guess if 7500 were at the New Cross v. Wimbledon London Cup match, crowds would generally have been lower than that as the South London derby was a big event attracting large numbers of Wimbledon supporters as well.

I believe the pre-war crowd figures for New Cross were around the 20 - 25,000 mark. It was a small stadium so it was practically packed out most meetings I have just come across a reference to the 1935 Test match at New Cross being held in front of a capacity audience of 30,000.

I forgot to answer iris's question about White City. Apparently gates rarely got any higher than 1500 and most of the time hovered around the 1000 mark. If 10,000 at Wembley lacked atmosphere you can imagine what 1000 was like at White City!

I believe the pre-war crowd figures for New Cross were around the 20 - 25,000 mark. It was a small stadium so it was practically packed out most meetings Thank you for those few kind words Ian. I have seen the opening night attendance at Wembley in 1970 put at between 17 and 20,000 spectators (one of whom was me!). And yes, they continued to average about 10 - 12,000. I believe the last night crowd was in the region of 10,000. In contrast to New Cross, of course, Wembley was a very large stadium so 10,000 seemed very small in comparison. There were often complaints about lack of atmosphere during the 70s revival. Remember that just after the War, Wembley had been attracting regular weekly gates of 40 - 50,000.

Yes, exactly the same situation with Norwich, who were probably the best supported team in the country at the time of their demise. Their owners sold the land for property development.

I think you're on dangerous territory here, Ian! The Entertainments Tax was originally introduced in 1916. It was increased in 1949 and again in 1950....

I've just been looking at the 1951 World Final gate receipts. The total taken was £24,241 of which 46.5% went in Entertainment Tax, i.e. £11,279. Had it been a soccer, rugby, cricket or ice hockey match or an athletics, lawn tennis, swimming, cycling or boxing meeting the tax taken would have been £3,344 (13.79%). The comment from the Speedway Control Board was, "The comparatively high admission charges made necessary by this heavy tax have undoubtedly contributed to the decline in attendances on many tracks during the year. If justice was done and this heavy and illogical tax was adjusted to the level obtaining for other non-betting sports, promoters would be able to reduce admission charges, giving a stimulus to attendances, badly needed by many tracks if they are to survive." Incientally the attendance at the 1951 World Final was 93,000

Thanks Addy. You're well above Ian now!

Does anyone have either a filled in programme or know the results of the first meetings at Belle Vue for either the meeting at Kirkmanshulme Lane on 28/7/1928 or Hyde Road on 23/3/1929? I would be very grateful for information on these two meetings. Thank you.

I have to say, Ian, that Addy is now well ahead of you on the norbold popularity meter!

Good thread and good choices Ian. I was lucky enough to start off at New Cross in 1960, promoted by the incomparable Johnnie Hoskins. There is no doubt he was still a great character, 37 years after he says he invented the sport. He created so much publicity for the club and speedway seizing on every incident and getting it in to the local papers and the speedway press. I've never really seen Ian Hoskins or Trevor Redmond at close quarters so can't really comment. You are right about Mike Parker and I would agree with you about what he did for the sport. He revived Hackney amongst others, and you are also right, he was very dull! But his place is certainly assured. Len Silver is probably the last in the mould of the Johnnie Hoskins type promoter and, love him or hate him, you can't really belittle his place in the history of speedway. He also loved Rye House so much he bought the company.... Dave Lanning was another great personality, but he wasn't promoter at West Ham in their great year of 1965 - that was former World Champion Tommy Price. Two other names I would like to add - Ronnie Greene. A strict disciplinarian by all accounts but his riders loved him and he produced arguably the greatest team of all time in the late 50s and early 60s with Wimbledon. The other is John Berry. So inexperienced when he came in to the sport that the Control Board were dubious about allowing him a license, but look what he managed over the years. I think he is particularly worthy of being named as one of the greats for getting together a team of local riders able to take on everyone and win the league. He had no need to resort to the chequebook. He trained up his own riders. He was also absolutley opposed to guest riders and even when one of his top riders was injured he would replace them with another local lad. Well, that's my fourpennorth. Any more for any more?

Funnily enough someone has just put a sign up over where the hole used to be saying "Moss Brothers - Property Developers". I think they must be turning the hole in to a tourist attraction. You know, cafe, souvenir shop, that sort of thing. Yes, we used to have smugglers in Clacton. You can read all about them in a splendid book called Clacon Past available Here

Thanks Addy. I think the chances of me making it to Belle Vue on Monday are pretty slim. I can't even get out of the end of my road at the moment what with all the snow. Perhaps you could ask him for me, Addy????

Now you sound like Boris Johnson!

You scamp, Ian.