1 valve

wow - 9 pages in such a short time - shows Unlcle Len & his actions still create reactions after all these years!

To be clear I wasn't sure if a guaranteed number of meetings was offered or not. I would have thought making such an offer would be unwise. However the deal usually is that season ticket holders get a discount in comparison to the total cost for all meetings in comparison to a person paying on the day for all meetings. Given that there is no "reserved seating" or similar benefits clearly this means its been a big gesture on the part of the seaon ticket holder to part with the cash up front and it would be reaonable for the promoter to acknowledge this shortfall in some way which at the very least should be a discount v normal price for next seasons tickets - or even one free meeting should the supporter not wish to renew.

Sorry for being slow on this. but why have season ticket holders not recieved the value of their tickets? was there a guaranteed minimum number of fixtures involved in the T&C'S? If so I would have thought the logical solution would be to provide applicable discount to next seasons tickets on the basis that if you dont renew then you lose the discount. This would be as per those who pay on the day and the meeting is rained off - use within a number of next few meetings or lose it. Frankly, if his outburst for them losing after holding a good lead to a team who clearly wanted it more than they did upset the riders concerned then simply put they are not good enough...Nobody said any pro sport is easy - fans may have the right to think their riders can do no wrong but promoters & tean managers have to look at it from all angles. Praise & critism is fair proportions...& v Somerset, the need for praise was never going to be on the post match agenda!

its worth rembering that revenue for broadcasters (excluding BBC) also includes earnings from advertising. this figure is varable depending on the viewing numbers starting at a base level and building up from there. So there are many sports which have larger TV viwing than speedway so yet again another reason why the promoters need to make the sport more appealing to the public - I cant get to the meeting but I will watch it on TV!

Although at first I found it hard to believe when I heard the figures mentioned - but stageringly, football revenue has never been anywhere near the highest form of income for the council from the Ricoh facility. Obviously CCFC keep the admission money but all other "hire rent and food supplies" for other activities represented 90% of income i.e. CCFC contributed circa 10% - with this in mind it is easy to see why the council would like to keep the facility equally why CCFC would lik to own the freehold. I dont think the powers that be within CCFC should entertain the concept of building their own (mini) version of the Ricoh given that there is no real suitable site for such a facility, more that they should return to The Ricoh and work from within at persueding the council to form a meaningful partnership - just think egos and childish spats will prevent that from happening...."I want it all, I want it all & I want it now!" as queen would sing!

I have a perfect location for CCFC. Its just off the M6 and has lots of car parking and has a great football pitch already in situ - I think its called The Richo..perhaps one day, those involved will stop acting even more stupid than this post of mine and work something out like grown up adults in order to return CCFC back to the Richo! Umm suppose that might be the problem - adults acting like un educated kids running sport and councils to feed ego's and wallets...what was that saying? ah yes, Pride before a fall!

you make good points. but to put mine into context. My team too is a Premier League club. I also visit Elite league meetings I also watch spedway on TV and when possible I attend live GP meetings over and above Cardiff. The main question I had for you was "why do you say Sky mucked up our sport"? The fact that they provided cash to the EL with little (nothing) to PL or NL does not constitue "mucking up" actually it would appear the PL have done Ok running the league with prudent management. However, we must appreciate that Sky wanted something for their money, which was "elite2 racing featuring the best riders. There is no question that over the (sky) years as far as the UK is concerned this has proven to be the case i.e. with all the best will & rose coloured glasses in the world - 99% of EL team would win home and away v PL. In a much smaller way than the Premiership, Sky have funded (or part funded) the cost of attracting the best riders (players) but regretably the promoters have failed to provide a show which has grown in attraction or entertainment. actually in my opinion in the past few years it has lessened - but clearly this is not the fault of Sky & if you were to look beyond just your own club you would realise that Speedway on TV should be a great advertisment for the sport and guess what - this would lead to new people visiting their local track to see the sport live - so why would any speedway supporter do anything to put Sky off from continuing with covering the sport?

I am sure negotiations have been going on for some time - The fact that the season ends end of Oct and the Sky contract ends end of Dec are of little relivance to one another as there is no speedway to show. THE AGM is also just another date in the diary which would not greatly influence any talks with Sky re 2014 and beyoynd. Yes it would be neat and tidy but should any agreemenst be made after the AGM then so be it - its just a normal (though significant) part of annual operations within the sport. If it gives you any comfort - The term of Sky's contract with the Premier League doesn't coincide with neither the PL's AGM or end of season.

Sky have mucked up our sport?? How can that be the case? we have had UK speedway & GP for years, which Sky provide cash to the UK promoters and GP rights holders - then the promoters spend it how the see fit. As I see it, the UK promoters have most probably not done the most with this opportunity - so I just cant see why Sky gets the blame - althoug clearly such comments will hardly help keep them interested in the sport will they?!!

Mick, I wouldn’t want you to think I am putting DH on anything like a pedestal as in previous posts I have pointed out that he has made mistakes. I have also agreed that (in my opinion) the track features straights that are too long for the corners. Although on this last point I think the better riders see this as less of an issue particularly since the alterations made at the end of last year have given better choice of entrance & exit lines. I also appreciate that folk on this forum have a right to voice their opinion although not so much those who get personal in their views to other forum members which is far from constructive. Similarly views expressed on DH or the promotion in general can be negative as well as positive but again no need for rudeness. And I should say your post is constructive even if they do (in my opinion) state an unnecessarily unfair attack on the promotion. However I also recognise that sometimes complaints result in positive action and nothing would please me more than to see superior racing at BP either via track changes or top flight racing. Both of which will cost more money than I think people in general realise. On the point I make re sponsors overstepping the mark, my point is that the promotion put on a show and the sponsors should decide if they can get a return on their investment be it publicity, customer entertainment or similarly for large corporate sponsors or even just self satisfaction for the love of giving that extra bit to support the club/rider. My point is that sponsors should not expect to make their support conditional beyond normal circumstances. i.e. it would be fair for a beer company to expect their products to be sold in the bar. But asking a promoter to change the shape of the track? Or (not that you have done) which riders should ride in what positions? I think that is overstepping the mark. As for next year, I am not looking to say “told you so” more that I hope speedway in Leicester does go from strength to strength which frankly should be possible if we see better riders and better teams week in week out although I quickly add, speedway generally in the UK needs to take a big look at itself in order to provide a better product than what we see today. But that’s another subject discussed elsewhere on this forum. Mick I truly hope you get the speedway you wish for in 2014 and beyond wherever that may be.

Sounds fun, but I fear many would not be prepared to listen to the other parties point of view. That said perhaps the supporters club could set up a few meetings in the close season and invite speakers to address specific topics in an orderly fashion which could be advertised in order to guague interest. If it could be done in good spirit then would help pass a few speedway less nights quite well.

Your not very good at reading threads are you Mick. I said Lions cant offer top flight racing to any rider - I never mentioned Hansen, I just quoted a fact. This will not change untill (if) they are alowed in to whatever is the top flight in 2014. Lets also recognise that Coventry is a top speedway club and as a young rider I guess Hansen felt whatever deal was offered to him was good enough to accept v any other offers that came his way and he is now set for next season nice & early which has got to be good for the kid. As for the payment thing - I know enough to back what I stated. As for being a winner - DH brings speedway back to Leicester in a new stadium with FIM international recognition, support/attendance is good v other clubs and the top flight begin to make positive noises about admitting the Lions into the top flight after only 3 years of opperation. I dont expect this can be achieved without doing a lot of things right behind the scenes and maybe breaking even or even operating at an affordable loss in the formative years is acceptable. Overall, I cant see anything to point to failure in running the business. What do you see Mick? And please dont say p***** off sponsors is one, because sometimes (unfortunately) sponsors forget that they are sponsors not owners or promoters and try to push the boundries in that regard. Also sometimes sponsors dont always provide what they said they will provide. In other words there is always at least two sides to the story and whilst DH has made mistakes, I see that he has made more right decisions than wrong, and I and I believe many other Lions supporters wish him & his promotion all the best in continuing to bring what is a far from wealthy sport to Leicester.

In reality, Lions cant offer top flight racing to any rider until they are "allowed" in. As for how riders are treated at Leicester v other promotions, I think its generally recognised that the Lions promotions pays it riders far more promptly than most. If you refer to riders being told their performances are not up to scratch (to put it politely) when results are poor, well I for one think they desrve it - On the other side I have seen plenty of congratulations being given out when things go well. DH is a winner, and most certainly is not a good loser. This I admire. after all show me a good loser & I will show you a loser!

Do the Bees still have Havelock as team manager or has he been let go? if still in situ does anyone know why? if he's gone who has, or who will be getting the job?

I know its a bit late, but congratulations to Glyn and all involved in getting the Lions v Coventry fixture on. We all know that the weather plays a big part in determining the type of track and hence the racing that is possible and all considered it was a meeting so much better than could be expected under the prevailing conditions. Also like to add a well done to the riders who put on a good show all round which considering the fact that this was a "friendly" they didnt hold back anywhere near as some other riders have done as witnessed on sky when track conditions were much less challenging. Job well done to all concerned!

I dont think the result v Coventry should be taken into account at all in determining if the Lions join the EL or take part in what ever the 2014 top flight is. Ok so they won by a big margin but it is strange to say its a bad thing can only be compared to saying that had they lost, it would have been a good thing. I am sure the Leicester promotion can do the sums correctly. Yes riders will cost more, and no weekend fixtures, but crowd numbers should be up due to local derbies v Coventry, Birmingham, Wolves & Peterborough to name a few so if they can secure a good enough team to compete (and I think they will) we should be encouraging the promoters to go for it - and then support their endevours to the hilt. I am lucky (old) enough to have seen world champions ride at Leicester and I am sure the prospect of top riders such Holder (when fit) Woffinden, Holder & NKI will bring the crowds in to BP just like Mauger, Olsen & Penhall did to Blackbird Road more than the Premier clubs and riders do currently.

On a number of occasions in various areas of communication DH has referred to the business plan. Like all owners of sport related business as an owner or majority shareholder you are involved either as a hobby for the rich or to make a living and return on investment. I think DH is in the latter and if the Lions get to compete at the highest level he will be on track with his plans complete with as many local derbies as possible. I think the concept of the average cap deals with the problem of a team fielding 7 top riders. However I do think once a team has made such choices they should not be forced to lose riders just because they made good signings in the first place.

If Douglas is available we could use him once every eight days

i Thank for the feedback jim, BTFC & volty. It Seems like DH has took on more than he bargained for in terms of other sports being found to complete the designated complex. If I remember correctly the guy from Kings Lyn was being touted as the potential promoter for Leicester, or was he going to be DH mentor? Anyway the project was delayed for a full year due to the non speedway parties not being able to sign up so I guess the missing piece (from my side) is at what point did DH get involved and did the LCC only agree for the speedway project to commence if DH agreed to take on the responsibility for establishing other sporting uses for the remaining areas. It is a shame Beaumont Town lost their facilities and maybe the LCC should step in with some seed corn funding and the club or other such body pursue lottery funding as per Aylestone Park and similar clubs have done in the past

Mount Beaumont just about sums the situation up...Clear as mud. Is it known if the City Coucil expected DH to be reponsible for developing the other none speedway activities as originally percieved i.e. football & BMX type sports or was it down to LCC to seek other partnerships?

Volty, you are absolutely right the value of the lease would be governed by what you can do with the facility concerned and personally, I have no insight into the scope of the lease in question. If it also does cover the outlying (& ever expanding) mud mountains then absolutely current and future values will be effected in consideration of any cost required to make those areas of use for other activities. My presumption is that the current promotion would sell all of its business interest i.e. the company, inclusive of Speedway license, lease and all other assets. Is that worth 1m? Well, it is if someone wishes to pay it and of course the current owner wants to sell and frankly I think the answer to the latter is a no, and I can understand why that is the case given that after 3 years DH must feel he is making progress with the project and wants to see it continue as a successful business under his stewardship.

By the way, is that £8,000 "the price with VAT" or "the price without VAT" ? !! ... because that might be another £1,600 that needs stumping up. [/quot If it was a full repairing lease i.e. new tenant being responsible for maintenance then there would be no need for VAT to be charged as the default setting is that VAT is not charged on transactions involving land and property. However I think people are missing the point that DH very more than likely has no wish to sell or give up the promoting of the club hence he is quoting what appears to be high prices. I say "appears to be" because 1m for a 99 year lease (I guess 96 now) maybe is not bad value when one considers inflation and the future benefits to be gained over that period. And of course is a way lower cost then the Belle Vue project which incidently the promoters of the Aces will not own as the complex will be run/owned by private equity. As an example of inflation in speedway: Admission prices for my first visit to Blackbird Road in 1969 (equivalent to 50p) rose by 400% to £2.50 by the time speedway closed in 1983 and now 30 years later £15.00 represents an increase of 500% (average 16% per year) on the 1983 price. So even if we use the current much lower inflation rate of 2.5% on a compounded rate in 32 years time (1/3 of the lease) we can expect to be paying at least £32.50 at each meeting which of course would increase the value of the lease. Therefore as in all similar cases DH is quoting nett present value rather than just today’s value in order to reflect the future value of the product he owns i.e. the lease and speedway organisation that didn’t previously exist! e]

Well, how about this for an alternative view. The quality of racing has improved this year v previous seasons. The Lions have for the most part ridden more competitively home and away than previous seasons. The track is more conducive to better racing (though shortening the straights would make it even better) The promoters have been successful in bringing speedway back to the City and their ambition to bring big time Elite League racing here along with local rivalry with The Bees, The Brummies the Wolves and Panthers should be encouraged. The promoters cant please all of the people all of the time, so they shouldn’t bother trying but just carry on doing what they are doing which is pleasing most of the people most of the time and improving what is on offer year on year. i.e. from Nothing to Elite League racing in 4 years Go for it! Oh and finally, I took a 25 year old first timer to Speedway on Sunday and guess what, she thought it was utterly fantastic and can’t wait to go again. I didn’t bother telling her it wasn’t the best racing to be seen; I just let her enjoy the experience.

To state the obvious, had the track been prepared better to suit Bjere then the Rockets riders would have benefitted too. As I saw it, the track changed during the meeting through the racing but Bjere’s contribution didn’t greatly improve. I’m not getting at the lad has clearly you don’t get to be a team’s no.1 by being rubbish with he is far from being. But maybe his riding needs to improve so that he can adapt to less than perfect track conditions & maybe, just maybe the promoters can be spared a little from being blamed for everything that is less than perfect.