Sidney the robin
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Posts posted by Sidney the robin
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Fixed gate positions were brought into action in both the BL and NL in 1988.
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2 hours ago, steve roberts said:How many paid maximums did Hans achieve Sid?
Great stuff from Chunky Steve , interesting reading Nielsen 84/ 92 ( his peak ) ——— 102 max —— 53 paid max - total —- 155. Olsen 1970/ 78( his peak) ———- 116 max———18 paid max _total ____ 134. that does tell you something.
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4 hours ago, Steve55 said:Who will be having a 'Glorious Twelfth'? Should be a good meeting, but that might depend on the Sheffield reserves showing up and scoring at home as well as away! Also depends on who'll be riding at 7, think Hume has done enough to be "signed up", but the management might be waiting to see if he can perform at Owlerton?
A different level i know Steve , but Hume rode twice at Owlerton in 2019 he rode in the Top Gun individual meeting.Jordan Stewart won that meeting Hume scored 9 points ( from four rides with two wins reaching semi) beating Flint twice.He also rode for the Tigers guesting against Birmingham winning heat 2 scoring 3 points from three rides.
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15 hours ago, steve roberts said:Hans Nielsen was another rider that winning races was not always the most important thing when riding for Oxford...the number of times I witnessed him shepherding his team mate home are too numerous to mention. A great team man of his and any other era.
If you look back Steve, Hans from 1984- 92 averaged over 11 points a meeting four times in that time .He scored 102 full maximums and occured 116 B/ POINTS .It just shows from such a dominant points machine that he occured all of those B/POINTS for the TEAM the stats surprised me somewhat.
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2 hours ago, Grachan said:I don't particularly remember Per Jonsson being a team rider at Reading, but one way I would never describe him is "gate and go". My best memories of Per Jonsson are watching him stalk a race leader for three and a half laps and then going past them on the final bend. He even did this to Jimmy Nilsen in a World Final.
Dave Mullet's big partnership at Reading, from memory, was with Jeremy Doncaster. Those two became something of a 5-1 pairing for the racers - at Smallmead at least.
John Davis was a brilliant team man at Swindon, but maybe he was amore mature then than he was at Reading.
Per who i saw alot of from 1984 onwards really upped his game in 1987, showing us the rider that the great Bob Radford had always predicted.His partnership’s with Holloway and Andersson was quite solid but later in his career he certainly was one of the better riders from the back.Per was cruelly struck down and the sport was robbed of seeing him approach his peak his benefit meeting just showed us all how much he was loved by the Reading fans.
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17 minutes ago, Bagpuss said:I do get that but if for example an FTR had two 'protected' heats (one of which would have a second string in in anyway) and then two unrestricted ones I don't think any flat track bullying would occur. It's about getting the balance right. And without wanting to take away from Pailin's heat 13 win on Monday that does t happen nine times out of ten so as good a ride as it was I don't think it proves an awful lot in isolation.
I do agree with all of this, we all know Palin really enjoys riding the NSS and he rides it very well.But what i did learn was that Jordan who has had plenty of lean nights in both leagues is really learning quickly.More importantly he is still believing in his own ability which is easier said than done.
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8 hours ago, The White Knight said:My favourite riders, not the best in the world but here goes:
Jim Airey
Gordon Guasco
Jack Millen
Graeme Smith
and finally, the one and only 'Briggo'.
You did ask.
You may notice a little Sunderland bias here.
No gentleman George Barclay WK ? you have probably missed endless others that you admired.For me i admire any rider of any ability that has the guts to ride a speedway bike.
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1 hour ago, mikebv said:But they all ride in the 2nd Division too so are getting plenty of rides to develop against...
(Oh hang on)....
Exactly the same riders....
Bottom line is if they are good enough they will develop to a first or second division level, if they are not, they won't...
And there is always the 3rd Division to go back to if some need to drop the top two leagues and 'start again'....
Going back to yesteryear Doncaster, Tatum, Loram, Screen, Wilson all made it eventually after going full time in the BL because as you said Mike they had the ability.Some others come through and had reasonable careers with struggles along the way and ENDLESS others fell away and failed.An interesting point as you said about the two leagues being similar have a look at Rowe, Palin, Flint, Hume, Kemp there averages in both leagues.
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8 hours ago, Fourentee said:Interesting points on Jordan Palin there. As it happens, Peter Adams devoted some of his programme notes on Monday to teenagers Leon Flint and Palin (Wolves having hosted the Panthers the previous week), saying of Flint’s progress: “Following and chasing riders who are better than him is a valuable learning curve in itself, but there are limits.
“Here last Monday, had he not been excluded for a tapes infringement in heat 8, he would have faced four times GP winner Hans Andersen in all four of his races which, quite frankly, is ridiculous.“Peterborough rising star Jordan Palin meanwhile was given only three of his scheduled four outings for the third away match on the trot and whilst I am not in any way being critical of their team building model, or their game plan as matches unfold, the development of rising star riders won’t be helped by denying them 25% of their races, or exposing them to opponents who are a class apart!
”I spy rule amendments in the winter…”
Thoughts?
Great post do you also believe the weaker reserve should always be in the no 7 berth Fourentee?.I did see at Ipswich the other night that Sheffield swapped Hume and Nielsen at 6/7 nothing wrong with that but in both leagues the number 6 berth away is really tough.
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9 minutes ago, Charlieboy said:Hume has rode well so far and deserves his chance. Bachelor smashing it again tonight for kent. His attitude gets more questionable with every meeting.
You beat Wolves on Thursday Charlie a tough ask ( Wolves are my title winners hope not) regroup the Tigers still have alot to race for.
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11 hours ago, steve roberts said:I remember a "debate" on here some years ago when Bwitcher was claiming a rider's greatness was based on race wins? On the face of it that may be correct however one needs to look deeper and a truer picture tells a different story. Just reading in the latest "Backtrack" an interview with Bobby Schwartz who always thought of his team mate first (in particular Bernie Leigh at Smallmead) where he would purposely slow a race down allowing him to take the lead whilst covering him to achieve the best result for the team. Apparently Jan Andersson couldn't understand his ethic but, afteral, Jan wasn't the best exponent of team riding not until the twilight of his career anyway. Bobby also talks of tactical riding with his American team mates during succussful performance in World Pairs Finals where he took on the roll as covering allowing his team mate to take the flag.
Ronnie Moore was also a great exponent of slowing races down finishing second to his team mate as indicated by his accumulation of bonus points over the years suggest. Okay on the Individual World front winning was all important but again if one looks deeper points were often dropped when riders wished not to win particular races so as to get a better draw in the next round.
Like everything in life things are not always so straight forward and require deeper anlysis.
Schwartz was a terrific rider not the quickest but he had eyes in the back of his head he had brilliant trackcraft. Like you said Mirac was awesome have to say probably the Grahame/ Collins. P/C / Mort and the Moran brothers were the best partnerships i ever saw.
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1 minute ago, The Third Man said:Need to sign Hulme before Thursday, and replace Batchelor as soon as possible
If not Belle Vue could sign Hume short term anyway for Etheridge can’t see Batchelor being replaced.
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37 minutes ago, steve roberts said:Hans Nielsen was another rider that winning races was not always the most important thing when riding for Oxford...the number of times I witnessed him shepherding his team mate home are too numerous to mention. A great team man of his and any other era.
Cox, Butler, Rasmussen, Dugard , Sorensen says it all Steve.
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11 hours ago, steve roberts said:I remember a "debate" on here some years ago when Bwitcher was claiming a rider's greatness was based on race wins? On the face of it that may be correct however one needs to look deeper and a truer picture tells a different story. Just reading in the latest "Backtrack" an interview with Bobby Schwartz who always thought of his team mate first (in particular Bernie Leigh at Smallmead) where he would purposely slow a race down allowing him to take the lead whilst covering him to achieve the best result for the team. Apparently Jan Andersson couldn't understand his ethic but, afteral, Jan wasn't the best exponent of team riding not until the twilight of his career anyway. Bobby also talks of tactical riding with his American team mates during succussful performance in World Pairs Finals where he took on the roll as covering allowing his team mate to take the flag.
Ronnie Moore was also a great exponent of slowing races down finishing second to his team mate as indicated by his accumulation of bonus points over the years suggest. Okay on the Individual World front winning was all important but again if one looks deeper points were often dropped when riders wished not to win particular races so as to get a better draw in the next round.
Like everything in life things are not always so straight forward and require deeper anlysis.
Jan Andersson an ok guy Steve was a terrible team rider , an inside rider who could cut back but that was it.He cost Malcolm Holloway a few points over the years by being just selfish out for himself only never thinking of the team.I see that in later years at Reading where he was not always getting the best gates he later got exposed.
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No news yet on the Sheffield front concerning the one reserve berth, remaining Hume has done well .No way will a fit or unfit Josh Bates do any better and with Nielsen Hume/ looks to have a lively pairing can the Tigers look to replace Batchelor?
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4 hours ago, BEATTHEBOOKIEBOB said:For the neutral Premier League speedway fan the season is building up to an exciting set of play offs with Wolves, Peterborough, Sheffield, and Belle Vue looking most likely to be the top four - Cases can be made for each club and I hope we can get to the play offs with no more injuries and with Jye Etheridge and possibly Ully returning - Roll on september and I hope Eurosport give the build up to the play offs they deserve - Good luck to all -
5 hours ago, mikebv said:All 'local lads' so get cut far too much slack in my opinion..
If they were not 'local' then they would be getting far more 'feedback'..
Criticise any of them though and the "dribblers" will come out with "have you ever ridden a Speedway bike?" etc.....
You can carry one of the twins but not both and whenever both have rode for the Aces it seems to always have been the same..
Wright and the Worralls seem to get a fair few bonus points and not always for being second, hence they will be doing 'ok' from a points money perspective but invariably not positively impacting the scorecard..
And in their "key races" where they are the main Ace they seem to rarely win them..
But to fair to all three, it hasnt ever been much different all their careers..
Very inconsistent and every time you think they will make a breakthrough to a higher level they dont...
Both Wolves and Peterborough seem to have more of a team unit, with a much higher desire to win than the Aces having watched them both race at the NSS this year, with their riders heavily involved in encouraging each other in and around the piits.
And in Jordan Palin, Peterborough have a kid who can truly go places. Having watched him since his Colts debut he is certainly one who could reach the very top..
His Ht 13 win last night reminded me of a 17 year old Joe Screen riding against the best the league had to offer at that time..
Totally fearless and confident in his own ability, and never putting a wheel wrong. So much so, even Dan with his "Polish Speed", didnt make much of a dent in his lead...
His style is very much suited to larger, wider tracks at the moment as he doesnt seem to turn the bike tight enough (and maintain enough speed), on the tighter circuits, but I am sure this will come, and as most of the major competitions are on the bigger Euro circuits this wont hold him back..
A shame the Aces let him go as he was always 'box office' with the Colts...
Going back to the Aces, (and all teams). Changing riders at this late stage is hardly worth it to be honest, these lads have spent fortunes on equipment so need to race in both leagues.
Be a bit unfair to take earnings potential off them now especially given the amount of meetings ridden so far with Covid and weather issues...
And isn't there a transfer window or something that may have passed?
The club should of made Jordan follow the path of Dan Bewley i have only see Jordan ride three times live.He has a great style and by going to Peterborough he has come out of a comfort zone and is progressing fast.The last few nights at Premiership level the likes of Wells getting rides is a joke.As for local riders getting a bit more slack never seen that myself Mike being local brings a pressure
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1 hour ago, falcace said:Chris Morton, Peter Collins, Richard Green, Shawn Moran, Les Collins
The obvious four in your list speak for themselves Falcace .But i did see Richard Green twice at Exeter and by god he was exciting to watch.
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25 minutes ago, auntie doris said:On another day Penniket, Bellego, Kildemand, Richardson, Bomber.....
On another day, Lee, Kilby, Crump ( jnr), Tommy Jansson, Ashby.
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1 hour ago, customhouseregular said:Knutsson, Harrfeldt, Hunter, Nordin, Lofqvist
Did you ever think custom, that Bjorn would become a World Champion ? and would he have won more titles.
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1 hour ago, shippy22 said:Brian Leonard, Brian Collins, Norman Storer, Harry MacLean & Tiger Beech
That is what it is all about shippy,, all your favourites terrific value never going to be World Champ but gave you great pleasure over the years.
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A very difficult question to answer but it would be very interesting to hear, what five riders are there alltime favourites on the forum.( No order) Barry Briggs, Clive Hitch, Scott Autrey, Malcolm Holloway. Phil Crump.
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10 minutes ago, Charlieboy said:For all those on Holder watch 03332+1 =11 paid 12. Another 4 point away win That will do nicely sets us up for top of the league Wolves on Thursday. Great team performance even bachelor won a race then realised he wasn’t riding for Kent so reverted back to his usual standard. Noticed Anders Rowe doing a bachelor getting his average down so he can join us next season.
To have four points as your lowest scorer says it all, a good team effort. And 11 points away from home from your two reserves was very useful indeed.
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The Speedway star kept on going through some really tough times but Philip had the vision to keep on track.The longevity of that magazine is outstanding, a great tribute to Philip and his hard work and having great staff with him at the speedway star.The biggest thing for me was he always listened and always wanted to move the magazine forward.He will be a huge loss to speedway and he for for me was in the John Berry mould , people had huge respect for him but he had his own view as well.RIP Philip.
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3 minutes ago, chunky said:We complain about some of the things that go on today, but we had a lot of stupid stuff going on back then, particularly with R/R. We used it in early 1976 for Christer Lofqvist - even though we knew he was never going to ride for us...
Yes you are totally right and yes i do moan about the tedious rules now , but there were some bad mistakes happening in yesteryear.The two that come to mind was a Mauger/ Olsen being aloud to come in as a tactical substitute in heat 8 .Also yes the top stars had big averages but 80 per cent of the time they had the best gates when often the lesser rider was stuck out on the crappy gates.
'They Retired Too Soon'
in Backtrack Magazine
Posted · Edited by Sidney the robin
In many ways but for very different reasons, Arthur Forrest had a similar sort of career to Michael Lee.Arthur started his career aged 16. In 1949 and retired in 1959 aged 26 going into the family business.He reached five world finals and was third in 1956 he also represented England as an 18 year old.Lee well we all know about his history his top flight career 1975/84 was finished in 1984 he won the title in 1980 and reached six world finals finishing placed twice and fourth in 1977.