AlanF
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Posts posted by AlanF
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IAlthough a great opportunity for youngsters, that is quite a change to designate where a rider must ride. The US sports system basically dictates where a college sportsman plays his professional sport. Even in the US it isn't unheard for a player to refuse to go to the team that drafted him, instead (for example) playing in Europe and effectively forcing a trade. Not sure any of our UK professional sports force a player to go to a team they don't want to. Not sure if teenage speedway riders is necessarily the time to buck the trend !!!
Therefore, I'd be surprised if it was a draft in the typical US style.
Interesting to see if a rider becomes an asset when he is allocated to you. I'm sure there are a lot of details to this. If you already have an asset (eg Adam Ellis) he would probably be protected and be allocated to you. Presumably Leicester and Eastbourne will not be allowed to choose a rider who already rides for a Saturday night PL team. I said earlier, I think it is the NL teams that will get the short end of the stick. Again, using Adam Ellis as an example, if he is riding for Lakeside in the EL and Ipswich in the PL, I'm sure he isn't going to want to go to the Isle of Wight on a Tuesday unless they are making it financially worthwhile.
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The devil is definitely in the detail here. If it is two genuine NL riders then it would be a farce. If it is two Brits aged 21 or under then it could be great. Having these guys potentially ride in all 3 leagues could be great. Can't be hard to have a formula that sees them riding each other twice and taking on the second strings the other two races. A similar rule in the PL would mean these youngsters getting some great experience.
Could be some fallout for the NL though. A rider riding EL and PL is probably going to want a lot more than what is currently on offer to ride in the NL as well.
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I'm afraid you have not thought it through, you could have a 21 points limit with 7 riders all on 3 points, but by the end of the year some would still be on 3 and some would be on 9 points or more and some in the middle. The new 9 pointers would be asking for 9 pointer heat leader money and certainly more than the 3 pointers. Will the promoters say to them, you can't be paid more because you are only a 3 pointer Conference rider who just happens to be a heat leader because the League has been weakened so much.
The promoters need protecting from themselves. Whatever the points limit, they have to be prepared to say no to riders who want more than can be afforded. If they pay a 7 point rider who would be a #1 in a watered down league what they are paying today's #1 then they deserve to go out of business.
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I know posters mean well but really forget regionalisation - it would just make the sport look crappy
the general public would equate it with the Conference North or something and assume its local team wasn't good enough to be in a national league
besides travel within this country isn't really the problem
Generally speaking, fans don't travel though. Local opponents generate higher attendances. The sport is on life support and needs to generate revenue. Judging by current attendances, the general public think the sport looks pretty crappy as it is.
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I don’t believe the promoters would ever go for this, but this is how I would do things.
Bring the two leagues together and bring up Dudley, giving a total of 24 teams. I don’t believe that we cannot find a way of setting team strengths that would enable every team to remain solvent.
Split the 24 teams into 4 divisions of 6. Doesn’t really matter what you call them.
North
Glasgow
Edinburgh
Berwick
Newcastle
Redcar
Workington
Central
Birmingham
Wolves
Belle Vue
Scunthorpe
Sheffield
Dudley
East
Coventry
Peterboro
Kings Lynn
Leicester
Ipswich
Rye House
South
Swindon
Poole
Eastbourne
Lakeside
Somerset
Plymouth
Each division would rode home and away twice against the teams in their home division and once against one of the other divisions. This would rotate and so each team would visit your home track at least once every three years. Travelling would be greatly reduced and each team would have 16 home and 16 away league fixtures.
The winner of each division would qualify for the playoffs.
Six qualifying groups for 4TT.
National KO Cup with an open draw.
Guests cannot be “borrowed” from another team in your division, so eliminating the obvious conflict of interest.
Riders championship would see top 2 from each team (48 in all). Three qualifiers with top 5 and highest 6th place qualifying for the final. Keep riders interested and showing up by given the highest placed non GP rider the wild card to the British GP (wherever they come from).
A team that does not qualify for the play offs and loses in the first round of the cup would get 18 home meetings.
A team that gets to the play off final and the KO cup final and hosts a riders championship qualifying round could have as many as 25 home meetings.
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I wonder who the last team was to start a season with same 1-7 that finished the previous season?
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They (SKY) gave up on the GPs. They gave loads of money to the Elite League, very little to the Premier League and, as far as I know, none at all to the National League where we are supposed to try and develop our young Riders.
Perhaps it is the Promoter's fault and they should have spread the riches around a bit - but - to be totally honest SKY has done absolutely nothing for the Premier/National Leagues. These two Leagues are getting through a very difficult financial Recession without any help from SKY - so, why should we be grateful to them?
I can see if you are an Elite League Supporter why you may be a bit peeved at the current state of things - but crucially - the Premier/National League have absolutely NOTHING to do with the predicament in which the Elite League finds itself. It HAD the money, almost all of it. It spent beyond it's means. It needs to sort itself out and NOT rely on the other Leagues for help.
If, as you say - "although clearly such comments will hardly help keep them (SKY) interested in the sport will they"? - I am NOT going to tailor my remarks around what SKY do or don't like. Frankly I couldn't care less - I support a prudent Premier League Club.
Surely Sky had a contract with British Speedway and paid the agreed contract amount. I would have thought it was the promoter's who decided what was going to be done with the money. The promoters could easily have passed some of it on to the PL and NL if they wanted to.
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Got my subscription. Looks great on my ipad.
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But surely if what you propose is implemented, there would be no need for paid-for edition subscriptions only or for on-line subscriptions only? Or am I getting confused in regard to the logistics of the proposal. It all looked good when first announced - sadly as a topic its wanderrd into BSFland.
I'm sure Speedway Star would be delighted if as many subscribers as possible took the online version rather than the printed copy. Much cheaper to distribute. This is the direction just about all printed media is going now. I get my local newspaper this way. In some of the more rural areas of metro Atlanta, they do not even offer a print version anymore.
Living in the US, I am very happy about this. I will definitely be subscribing. Will get up to date news and not have to pay higher subscription costs for shipping.
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You can never gage how many there might have been over the years without it ...to me it's kept speedway alive I know the set of people who I watched it with came back to the sport because they saw it on sky and got the bug back .
I think it's been a double edged sword. The additional exposure is great, but the exposure and the money has been squandered. Now many tracks may be in the position that they can't live without it. If they hadn't had it in the first place, they would have done a better job at keeping expenses under control, and not be reliant on Sky for their survival.
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IF you were the boss of Sky and there was just the slightest chance that you might renew the speedway contract, wouldn't you want to know what was on offer NOW...
Yes, but equally you can't hang around forever waiting for them to decide. At some point you have to set your budget and plan without it and hope you do get the money.If you plan on getting it and then it doesn't materialize then that could be game over for many tracks.
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So, decide what's going to happen TWO years down the line.... teams vote in 2013 for 2015... and decide not to run at the end of 2014... when some clubs are unsure if they are running in 2014 to begin with!!!!
Absolutely. The more advance planning that a business can do the more chance it has of being successful. Teams leave running decisions until late partly because they don't know what the rules are. How can there be 6 weeks left in the season and nobody knows whether there will be an Elite league or one big league.Enormous difference in costs that would clearly materially affect many promotions intentions. If you know the operational costs for 2015, you should know by June 2014 whether you can afford to run or not.
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In other words, what should happen is the BSPA scrap the Autumn (End of Season) Conference and do away with the voting procedure and just announce NOW what is going to happen in 2014?
Not at all. They should still have the conference and it should be deciding what will happen in 2015. If they decide, for example, every team needs a minimum of 3 brits, then teams need a year to prepare for it, not a month. Budget that there will be no sky money, and then if there is, it is a bonus. Formats and rules for 2014 should have been decided months ago.
Decide the rules for 2015 this winter and then ask teams to ratify by the end of June 2014 that they will be running in 2015. If anybody says no, revisit the rules in July 2014 and ratify them or any changes by the end of July 2014.
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Not so. Children take the direct line from their parents - and I think you'll find his father (and grandfather come to that) were Australians. Phil Crump and Neil Street.
More Brits encouraged in the EL? I like this description on the Lakeside Hammers website that describes this week's visitors King's Lynn: "
The Stars will be led the Danish World Cup captain Niels Kristian Iversen and will also include Andzejs Lebedevs, who also competed in the recent World Cup for Latvia. Also included in the stars side are three other Danish riders, Lasse Bjerre, Mads Korneliussen and Nicklas Porsing, Australian Rory Schlein and former Hammer Richie Worrall.
I am British but my son was born in the US. He is automatically an American citizen but also qualifies for British citizenship through my wife and I. You have to fill in some paperwork to prove you are British and submit it. I want to say I submitted it to the British Embassy in Washington DC but I can't remember now. I assume the same would apply between Britain/Australia.
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Very fair point to accept people at Poole couldn't afford 2 meetings a week when both the Elite & National Leagues were being run at Wimborne Road ... in fact, it's not just the money aspect of 2 meetings a week that people can't afford because too many of them probably found it harder than they expected to spare the time to attend twice a week.
Edinburgh/Armadale, Newcastle (both Premier & Conference 2002-03-04), Newport (several seasons), Stoke (when they were still in the Premier as well as the Conference), Sheffield and Swindon (remember, the Sprockets existed about a decade ago) all found it was really easy for supporters to be enthusiastic in advance about all the extra speedway that was going to be on offer to them.
But plenty of that enthusiasm didn't translate into supporters actually turning up, especially for the Conference/National action in dodgier weather, hence proving what any crowd-pulling sports team should remember about being realistic that their crowd will always look forward to next time instead of starting to feel it's a bit of a chore going to watch yet another meeting in too busy a schedule.
Speedway is now reaping the "rewards" of not investing in the future. I can't think of any sport that expects their reserve/ minor league / training teams to run at a profit. If the higher leagues had manged their expenses at a sustainable level, the TV money would have enabled them to subsiidize the development of future stars.
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Easy to blame the manager, but he wasn't riding the bikes. Team GB are at its lowest ebb in years. In fact, I can't ever remember when we lacked the talent to field even a four-man side and feel confident of pulling off even a decent World Cup appearance.
Middleditch can't be blamed for our riders failing to each anywhere near the standard we were used to in rose-tinted spec days. And, remember folks, we (meaning England) haven't actually lifted the World Cup since 1989... and that because Erik Gundersen had those life-threatening injuries in heat one and hot favourites Denmark were shattered. It is 33 years since England actually won the World Cup and were the powerhouse that deserved to.
No particular axe to grind with Middleditch but I can't see how he can stay in the job. No way we should be losing to a team with Fisher, Wells and Manzares. He doesn't ride the bikes, so his main function is motivation of his riders. If he can't motivate them to beat that US team then there is no point him being in the job.
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1. When times were good, British speedway never really invested in the future. Stars emerged despite the system, not because of it. Used grass track as its source for kids.
2. Initial short termism opened the door to foreign riders in the Premier League (or whatever the title was at the time). Legally, you couldn’t stop EC riders getting in, but the promoters could have chosen not to sign them.
3. With fewer places available, the pool of British riders from which somebody could “make it” on the world scene got smaller.
4. With a smaller pool, British success on the World level was greatly reduced.
5. The lack of success on the World level resulted in reduced media interest.
6. Reduced media interest resulted in reduced public interest.
7. Reduced public interest meant lower crowds and more tracks falling by the wayside.
8. Fewer tracks meant fewer places available.
9. Less money being generated at the gate means a need for survival and making this year’s team successful, not worrying about who was going to be in the team in 5 years’ time.
10. Survival mode means finding riders as cheaply as possible and already at the required standard.
11. Lack of money means that Sky money is spent on subsidizing business rather than improving the infrastructure that would help kids come through.
12. Gates are now so low and speedway so unfashionable, that youngsters are not attracted to it (watching or competing).
13. Because Speedway doesn’t attract the right demographic, decent sponsorship is hard to come by.
14. Costs are spiraling and without good sponsorship, kids can’t afford it.
15. If kids can’t afford it they will do something cheaper and a bit “cooler”.
16. How to break the cycle without throwing huge sums of money at it, I have no idea.
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I think you can trace the decline back to the decision to allow Jens Rasmussen and Peter Shroek to ride for Rye House. We already had some Aussies but this opened the floodgates. I am all for the Elite League attracting the best riders in the world, but the Premier League should be all about British riders. We have become trapped in a vicious circle.
Fewer places available = Less riders making it to the top = Less national visibility = Less kids want to take up the sport = Not enough Brits = Bring in more average foreigners. Then start back at the beginning.
The end result is we have second strings riding for us in the World Cup. We have been through this cycle so many times now in ever decreasing circles that I don't know if you can stop it disappearing down the plug hole. Too late now to introduce quotas of British riders as there are not enough of the required standard.
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First step has to be to do some market research. You can't give the people what they want if you don't know what it is that they want.
My personal view is that it is nothing to do with the racing or the rules. If you go to a US sporting event there is hardly a moment where there is nothing going on. There are interveiwers with roving mikes talking to fans, competitions with instant prizes and lots of music that is relevant to what is happening on the field. Give the riders their own theme tune that they come onto the track to. Play a snippet of three songs and have the fans text in which one they want to hear in full. Make the fans feel involved in the event. Would also help to have decent PA systems where everything comes over loud and clear. Half heard interviews and tinny music are a real turn off.
Some of these ideas may cost a few quid, but the Sky money should have been used to build infrastructure and promote the sport, not subsidize pay rates that the sport could not afford.
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Are there any plans to offer a digital subscription version, similar to the Speedway Xtra Online version currently available? I live in the US and stopped having the Star sent to me as it was old news by the time I got it. I would happily pay for a digital version available the same day that it is on sale in the UK. Most magazines now offer this type of subscription.
Many Thanks
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Sam Simota replaced by Ronnie Correy!!I thought they were pushing their luck, expecting 3 Reading riders to show up to the same meeting.
(Just kidding, Racers fans).
British Speedway Promoters Meeting
in Speedway News and Discussions
Posted
What happens if a youngster is allocated to a club and cannot agree terms? Surely for this to work there has to be a fixed pay scale so they cannot earn more by going elsewhere? what happens if you want to replace one of them or they get injured? Do you get free choice of any unallocated qualified riders?