Great Central
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Posts posted by Great Central
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1 hour ago, 1 valve said:The big (& grossly unfair)anomaly regarding riders being paid/not paid is that riders would be in an immediate breach of contract should they refuse to ride because of not being paid for previous work (meetings) done with the consequence of not being allowed to ride elsewhere in UK. Promoters however have no reciprocal action taken against them for not paying their workers/contractors “on time”
Whilst clearly this set of circumstances is so that “The show must go on” (which wouldn’t happen if riders withhold their services) it seems appropriate that something along the lines of rules being set where riders must be paid no later than (say) 10 days past the due date and if that payment is not made then the BSPA makes the payment from the Bond fund. The delinquent promotion then has to reimburse the fund within a set period time with interest or face further sanctions.
Frankly the only promotions who would be unable to live with this type of agreement are those who are in reality unviable in the first place and need to face the consequences sooner rather than later so the sport has a realistic financial & moral operating base to work within.
Great idea there. It is also not in a riders interests to make a big issue out of non payment of "wages" since they may be overlooked for a team place in the following season.
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11 hours ago, Sir Sidney said:I hope the NDL has a very strong year, with riders who are of the right ability. The BSPL has created an issue by weakening the league this season - not entirely sure how they rectify that for next season.
With regards to IOW - did you go to any of the meetings? I did, and they were far from being 'a bit rubbish' as you suggest.
Thank you for your very kind comments about our meetings. The programme wasn't as planned initially, but in the end we put on an evenings entertainment and our spectator numbers were up despite several logistical problems that affected support from the mainland. I am glad that you thought they weren't rubbish.
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18 minutes ago, stevehone said:my pictures from the dinner here >>
https://www.flickr.com/photos/the_womble/albums/72157720145442936
As usual you have managed to really capture the event mixing formal and informal views alike. Nobody is safe when you have your camera in hand.
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3 hours ago, George Dodds said:are we certain there will be seven-man teams? There was an interesting experiment with six-man teams last year which worked reasonably well.
That is one way round the shortage. We were going to trial it on the Isle of Wight this year but as you know, riders were warned off from riding with us. Rob Peasley devised the format, and whilst it reduces travel costs for one rider it does has some very good points.
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54 minutes ago, Grand Central said:Tbh it's wearing a bit thin.
To be perfectly frank, most of it is childish and is bringing TV speedway down. They talk rubbish most of the time. Of course others will see it differently.
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1 hour ago, hammer1969 said:It was coming to the end of it's life and didn't meet the safety requirements for racing next year.
Thank you for the information.
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18 minutes ago, hammer1969 said:Gutted is an understatement. I have no doubt Eastbourne tried everything to keep coming to the tapes and my heart goes out to all the Management involved with this awful decision that has had to be taken.
Why is a new air fence required? Are you saying it belongs to somebody else?
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1 hour ago, orion said:What are the stock car crowds like at the iow during the summer holidays ? The bottom line is we have had 30 pages about how speedway is ran as the cause of Eastbourne problems but no one knows for sure what has happened . For all we know someone could have there hand in the cookie jar .
Lets up see the iow run the flying circus from march to oct next year to see what the results are .
You may see it as the flying circus but we don't. We provide an evening packed full of entertainment for all ages at a very reasonable price for all people to watch, but moving on to your last comment about running from March to October. When running in the NL, we never planned to run in March or October, as we recognised that those months would be difficult for us but we did try and stage a meeting every week.. This year we are running later than in previous years so we will see how things look after those meetings but we may spring a surprise later on.
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6 minutes ago, szkocjasid said:Not everyone heralded the idea, just the ones making the decisions!
That is so true.
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5 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:Great Central,
Thank you for that info re the ownership of the club. I can see in this instance the two promoters have a far trickier role in the running of the club, holding the BSPL approved promoters licence and employed by the Eastbourne Speedway Ltd. Company.
Yes it does seem quite tricky for them and I feel for them both right now as they would appear to be in a very difficult position.
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19 minutes ago, old bob at herne bay said:Lee Kilby is the son of the late Bob Kilby, one of Swindon's top riders. Lee, I think was involved with Swindon speedway last season, and was recruited by EB as a "co-promoter" alongside Trev Gear.
Why you need two "promoters" is of couse another good question - it's another wage to pay, as well as those for the 2 directors Ian Jordan and Les Fineing
You need two promoters to stop what happened when the late Tim Stone passed away several years ago at Newport. The aftermath was very difficult to unravel apparently and obviously stopped the club in its tracks. At Eastbourne, it is slightly different as the club is not owned by the Promoters but by the two named directors who the BSPL have no control over as they are not BSPL approved promotors.
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2 hours ago, uk_martin said:That's 19 teams...add IoW to that, and it's 20 teams. Here's some food for thought for you.
There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams?
What's the plan for rider allocation? Are you planning on scrapping doubling down? (Everyone else wants to see the back of it) Can you compel the top 63 in the averages to fill up the British League places, leaving the National League to allocate the rest? And what basis do you suggest for building teams up in each of the leagues if you have one league of big hitters and another league of low attainers?
Have you asked the fans of teams such as Plymouth, Birmingham, and Edinburgh what they think of being in the National League with a team made up of what's left at the bottom of the barrel? Birmingham for one, rejected National League speedway, Plymouth has started at the bottom and has ambitiously shown desire to move up in life and Edinburgh has known life at the top of it's own tree for a long time. You'll be asking fans in far flung places to be making sacrifices in the quality of their own entertainment, that they are expected to pay for, for the benefit of those clubs struggling elsewhere. How long before compassion fatigue sets in?
There are currently little more than 130 riders spread out across our 3 leagues. Where are the other 10 coming from (or 3 of IoW are excluded again)? Where's the injury cover? Or are you looking at 6-man teams? Had we been able to get the riders across to the IOW unhindered by pressure from the authorities, we would probably tried running 6 man team challenge matches. Rob Peasley Oxford TM devised a format which had some merits and looked promising enough to try out. Maybe next year.
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On 8/11/2021 at 1:26 AM, Chris said:Thanks to all those who submitted objections but it would seem that less commented than for the previous application. I think only two or three BSPL promoters objected and as far as I can see nothing from the BSPL Board. An absolute disgrace by a company that is supposed to promote speedway in the UK.
Martin Widman Wight Warriors
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On 7/22/2021 at 12:33 AM, RobMcCaffery said:We're the lead story on page 2 of this week's Speedway Star and the response to sharing our request for people to object to the planning application and to share that request over as many groups as possible is going well.
There's a long road to go and a very tough fight but we're getting the backing within speedway that we hoped for. Thanks to all.
Rob.
I have objected as well and have spread the word. Hopefully you will get loads more objecting. Best wishes.
Martin Widman
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On 7/30/2021 at 9:49 PM, cityrebel said:We were booked on the 4pm from Lymington and came back on the 11pm from Fishbourne. It felt like a chartered speedway ferry!
The 11pm ferry from Fishbourne is very much like a "speedway special". Lots of banter for 40 minutes and then disappear home.
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41 minutes ago, cityrebel said:Is the ferry situation likely to change, for us fans that use the fast cat on the mainland.
That is obviously of some concern to us and the reason for not having a late FastCat is currently because hospitality places aren't fully open yet. In fact some haven't opened at all like many around the country so according to Wightlink the demand isn't there. We are hoping for some good news when the Government hopefully decide to open up fully.
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2 hours ago, Sings4Speedway said:Everybody is entitled to their differing views on what Speedway should offer that is one of the things that makes it great and also one of the reasons why its currently in such a mess. The fixture list is likely not how Martin & Barry want it either but given the short notice and restrictions they have faced it looks decent enough to me and great to action on track this year which hopefully means in years to come also. If you fancy a Speedway reset give the Handicap meeting a try as it guarantees interesting racing in every heat.
Thank you so much for those much for those kind words of support. They mean a lot to us in these difficult times. .
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11 hours ago, topsoil said:That fixture list does nothing for me, I'd far rather see a league campaign. Different opponents each week and my own team to follow is far more attractive to me.
And yes wouldn't most people like to see a league campaign but the fault does not lie with Barry and myself, but firmly at the doors of the BSPL Board of Directors who imposed rules on our operation without any consultation or agreement. You try running a business with your hands tied behind your back with all the financial risk being yours. The current situation is far from ideal but a number of people believed in what we were doing this year and we have tried to be loyal to them in the best way possible by coming up with this programme of meetings. Yes there are some omissions but our season has been curtailed by bodies not operating in the best interests of the sport so it is shorter than was anticipated. Apologies if the programme doesn't suit you personally but we are trying our best to put on events that will please and entertain, and will also aid the development of the riders who come through our training sessions.
Martin Widman
Co Promoter Wight Warriors
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1 hour ago, adz_mft said:The forecast was for us to miss the rain but it changed and we received it. Meeting was called off at 11am. 4 hours before the meeting started. Struggling to see what else the club could have done. i've seen Danno was already there which seems incredibly early to arrive for a meeting. When i used to work the back gate signing riders in we didn't let anyone in until gone 12pm for a 3pm start with many riders never turning up until around 2 hours before a meeting earliest normally.
Danno lives on the Isle of Wight and at busy times, it is not always easy to pick the ferry that you want especially for late bookings. Bear in mind that he was supposed to be at Eastbourne yesterday so would have been staying over on the mainland.
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3 hours ago, old bob at herne bay said:Sorry " Ringitsneck", but history has shown that UK speedway administrators have repeatedly failed to change the sport to attract and entertain new spectators to the sport, failed to attract new investment into the sport and failed to provide a fair, transparent and democratic leadership structure. Any attempts of new ideas brought in by "others" have always been debunked. They are still marketing the same old 15 heat 4 laps a race clutch start 7 man team format for every meeting , all riders messing around endlessly before every heat. TIRED is one word that sums up the entertainment offer.
They have sensibly made their group a Limited company, in anticipation of the day when they have to wind up.
You would have thought that the admin. would bend over backwards to ensure as many clubs line up to tapes every season ...... but we see a steady loss of venues and the remaining "clique" of promoters just shrug their shoulders. Will the Premier League complete the 2021 season ? We started with only 6 and might only have 5.
The lack of action on the top table to promote and market the sport in the UK is reprehensible.
Speedway will survive IMO, but run by a disparate group of promoters who will rent a venue on an occasional basis for individual invitation meetings, with token prize money offered (just like UK grasstrack). This perhaps is not dissimilar to the ideas of the IoW promotion .... but this is where the sport is heading, and what the public will pay to watch in numbers.
People want an afternoon/evening out, to be entertained, with plenty of track action, and not be be subjected to 15 drawn out heats of tyre warming , 2 minute warnings, separated every 3/4 heats by tractor racing.
Extremely well put and the first of the Objects for which BSPA is established is to "protect and represent the lawful interests of the Members" This is not me making it up but is from the Articles of Association produced when the BSPL was formed. You could say that they aren't doing a very good job but like us they have been battling with Covid keeping their own businesses going, as well as trying to run the BSPL.
This may come as a bit of a surprise but I do have some sympathy for the "Top Table", because trying to plan your way out of Covid restrictions has been difficult but in my view there was no better time to shake the tree and come up with something new. Barry came up with an idea to liven up the 2020 NT competition but it was rejected as being too difficult or something like that. We have ideas on how to change the look of speedway as we are also very conscious of the criticism of the "same old same old with tractor racing" and I think with our team challenges, Best Pairs, 3TT, Handicaps etc we were doing a pretty good job. Yes we sometimes did have problems with our track but we normally filled the interludes with news, interviews or action for the kids.
Nothing works 100% of the time but if you don't try, nothing will change.
Martin Widman
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1 hour ago, barrybishop said:This is a very challenging time for Martin, myself and everyone associated in one way or another with the Isle of Wight, and personally I am close to saying it's enough now. All we wanted to do was put on a viable speedway product, the BSPL emposed rules upon us giving an yes/no ultimatum to join the league in 2021. That means, no discussion, nor any prospect of allowing discussion in future years. While we did not agree with the points limit we were not allowed to discuss it - its this or nothing.... We are told that every promoter in the sport wanted it... yet I can name at least 6 who we deal with regularly who will say no such discussion has happened and even if it did, why is their views more important than ours for our league, our business. Of course it is not, but they didnt view it like this.
Even to today.... Martin and I have received no communication from any member of the board of BSPL other than the office manager during the time that we wanted to leave. There was no "please come to the office or take a zoom call and lets discuss it", there was nothing... Yes - no, in or out... and like this for years to come.
Now we are left in a situation where it is OK for BSPL clubs just to hire and fire riders at will, nomadic club names can used in amateur events that bring in private hire revenue but cannot be used in amateur second halves, and rising stars who are supposed to be protected clearly are not. And.... all the time the Isle of Wight has the ability to give these riders more rides, in a safe, relaxed, entertaining environment, and yet ultimately because we did not agree to not having a say in how our league is run while others who have no vested interest in it can, and without a prospect of this changing, rider will have the fear of sanctions for themselves or their BSPL club's and the only people who will miss out are the fans, volunteers, sponsors and riders of our sport.
Believe me, while working full time too, running a speedway club is no pleasure ride, there are so many challenges, so much that you will never see or hear of that just makes us all want to stop it. But we love it...nothing gives us more pride when people have really enjoyed the show, or a young rider who we help scores well, or a rider from MFS becomes a mascot, MDSL rider, and so on... but the personal toll that we have to endure and now this increased toll.... its just heartbreaking.
Enjoy your speedway everyone wherever you view it... every club will need you all and all your positivity this and the coming years.... oh and BTW my smiling/laughing face earlier on a previous comment was only because even now people still think the reason Martin and I left was over the points limit, it totally was not... it was over how we were treated (and continue to be) by the BSPL.
All the best.............
Well said Barry. I certainly couldn't have put it better myself. There are still so many people out there who still think that we withdrew from the BSPL because of the points limit and that just isn't true. The BSPL will continue to say that all clubs voted in the new points limit, but that is not what we have in black and white from the BSPL, and even if they did, how were they allowed to vote when the two most affected clubs, weren't even allowed to discuss the matter. It was our choice to try and run speedway on the island and doing it from our homes just adds to our problems but our business that we have worked bloody hard to build up with great support from businesses and supporters on the island(and off it), cannot operate under rules dictated by clubs who have no financial liability towards us.
Martin Widman
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On 6/3/2021 at 8:48 PM, phillwhitewasmad said:Yep seen that but wasn't it part of a private hire day so you can do as you want. Isn't that totally different from ghost teams running as second halfs under scb rules and referees
The meeting was organised and run by Scunthorpe Speedway under SCB rules and riders had to get Day Licences if they didn't have an SCB licence. It was racing and I suppose you can under a private hire but the implications of anything happening would I think be quite significant, especially on the owner of the track.
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54 minutes ago, jrs said:Sorry to break the news Martin but Crescent Girl isn't a lass maybe he's having some late in life identity crisis
Belated congratulations to you and Barry for the stalwart work that you've done for speedway on the island over the years. Only wish I'd had the opportunity to visit in the past.
Oh dear. I will have to keep my eyes wide open when travelling up north. I always thought men were men up there but obviously not so.
Regarding the island, thank you for your comments but we were only putting on what we thought the paying public wanted to see. We haven't given up and this week, we start on the road back with our MFS training school trying to develop the many youngsters, not so young, that normally attend.
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7 hours ago, Halifaxtiger said:The problem is more one of perception than reality. It seems to be a widely (if in my view very often mistakenly) held belief that it is automatic that as the standard of rider lessens, so does the standard of the racing.
When Poole proposed dropping down last year, around 30% of their fans said they would not watch a Championship team. When Birmingham and Lakeside moved into the NDL a few seasons ago attendances - at least initially -crashed. In addition, we will all be aware of the number of people who have over the years at least said that they will not go again because of points limit reductions. Assuring them that the quality of racing is the same usually cuts very little ice indeed.
As such, Isle of Wight had every reason to fear significant loss of supporters and consequent loss of revenue resulting from a points reduction.
Besides which, their issue is not just what happened but the way it happened. Had there been a vote amongst NDL clubs (and I have yet to see anyone suggest that there need not have been) rather than having regulations imposed on them by and at the behest of PL & CL clubs (most of whom have no connection with the NDL) then it is entirely possible that the Warriors would still be part of that league.
Then again, its extremely likely that had there been a vote the points limit would not have been reduced, which is almost certainly why it was imposed.
Halifaxtiger very well put as always. Yet another balanced posting.
Although I post as Great Central (most people know who I am because I live in Loughborough which is one end of a famous steam heritage line), I am Martin Widman Co Promoter and Joint owner of the Wight Warriors Speedway team. It is clear looking at the post by "crescent girl" that she hasn't read our press releases or postings on here. Whilst Barry and I did have misgivings about the product that we would have to promote as a result of the 35 points limit, that was not the reason why we chose to leave the BSPL. We may yet be proved wrong about the new limit but only time will tell and it will be a case of perception.
The only reason was because as a member of the BSPL(albeit an Associate Member) we did not get the opportunity to discus its merits in a meeting or AGM, the pitfalls of it and the impact it may have on the product that we had to promote and the resulting impact on our business. The rules were dictated by the Board of the BSPL, none of whom have any liability as to the financial success of our business.
In spite of the many emails sent seeking clarification about an AGM, about whether this method of dictating the rules which we had to work under would continue at the end of the year, no clear responses to our requests were made. We may actually be forced into publishing the emails to show that we are not telling lies and to show the lack of respect that we were afforded. We were therefore left with no option.
Barry and I are the people who have started the business out of our own pocket, assisted by our sponsors and fans, and we live or die by how we run our business. It has to be noted that along with Mildenhall, we have never received any TV money from the BSPL, money which helps to subsidise the NL teams run by other league teams. As standalone clubs running more NL meetings than non standalone clubs, we actually put a lot of money into the BSPL and SCB coffers and yet got no say in how our business is run. Crescent Girl can buy out my share if she wants, and then be subject to the same dictatorial rules but I suspect the offer will be declined.
I have tried on many occasions to come up with an analogy on the position we found ourselves in and can only come up with this one. Imagine you are a shop owner paying your taxes and rates to the local Council and suddenly the Council come along and say that you have to cut your prices by 25% What would you do?? Move to another area, get out of shop keeping, or accept the new rules and go bankrupt.
Speedway is not in good shape right now and all we were asking was to be given the chance to have our say in how we thought it should run in 2021 and beyond. For now, that is all I will say but there is a lot more that could be said.
Martin Widman
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Peterborough Panthers 2023
in SGB Premiership Speedway League
Posted
Excellent summary so thank you. Just add to it, the Agricultural Society appears to have transferred all the shares of EESS Ltd to AEPG who will then repay the Agricultural Society from the money raised when Phase 1 goes through and money starts coming in. It seems to me that EAAS have been taken in by this "crook".