John Postlethwaite

[Kevin Meynell 2]

Well I like watching meetings in Stadiums such as The Millenium at Cardiff.

 

Well that's very nice, but you can only have such meetings in such stadiums whilst there is an underlying infrastructure to support it. The problem is that the SGPs are parasitic rather than complementary, so may end-up killing the league(s) that provide and mostly finance the riders who ride in the competition. In addition, are you happy to watch just one meeting per season in the UK?

 

Meetings which are slickly run, dont drag on and are most of the time very entertaining with a level of skill far far above what we used to see in days gone by.

 

No-one is suggesting that the British leagues are a wonder of organisation, but that could be fixed regardless of the SGP. As to the statement that the skill level is far far above what was seen in days gone by, well I'm afraid that's utter nonsense. With the exception of a handful of riders, the standard of the lineup in current SGP is very much below those of World Finals in the past. Zagar, Pedersen and Lindback - give me a break.

 

The GP series brings about the best of the best & the reason why our sport is a lot more high profile these days.

 

Really? So why are attendances so absymal in Britain these days? How many extra fans does the SGP attract to regular league racing?

 

I dont think the Reading Fiasco proves that JP cant promote speedway, I think he was just too ambitious for a 2 bob league run by an old boys club.

 

Take away the prestige round at Millenium Stadium from the SGP (which always seems to have a suspiciously round attendance of 40,000), and what do you have?

Five of the GPs had sub-10,000 attendances last season (and during the previous seasons) which is no better than the pre-BSI GPs. Wroclaw and Bydgoszcz had reasonable attendances (at 24,500 and 17,000 respectively), but so did the pre-BSI GPs and World Finals held in Poland. That leaves the Copenhagen GP which drew a respectable 24,892 fans in a decent stadium. But again, let's put this in perspective - the latter World Finals in Munich, Bradford and Gothenburg still managed more.

 

The trouble is that the rest of speedway was so bad, that it made BSI look good. More to the point, they only have to organise a handful of meetings each season for which they are free to choose the optimal dates. In addition, they can also choose any riders they please, without compensation to the tracks that originally developed the riders and who rely on them for their own businesses, whilst at the same time paying prize money that by itself would not provide the riders with a living wage. By contrast, it is much harder to run weekly speedway where you don't hold all the aces, and that is where promoters must really earn their corn.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[RPNY 608]

No-one is suggesting that the British leagues are a wonder of organisation, but that could be fixed regardless of the SGP. As to the statement that the skill level is far far above what was seen in days gone by, well I'm afraid that's utter nonsense. With the exception of a handful of riders, the standard of the lineup in current SGP is very much below those of World Finals in the past. Zagar, Pedersen and Lindback - give me a break.

 

Well I believe rider for rider the series now is better now than any one off final in my memory... It is ironic that you mention 3 riders who have all had podium finishes in a GP..

I am in no way saying the series is fautless, but it does make me laugh when riders, promoters, ex riders etc all say how much the GP has changed speedway for the better, yet the "experts" on here still talk it down..

Some promoters moan about the GP - and for one reason only, they get p*ssed off that their riders go missing.. Well run the league better, get a set night or 2 for British league racing, use the Sky money & other sponsorship better to pay competitve wages & it might all be a little easier..

[Kevin Meynell 2]

It is ironic that you mention 3 riders who have all had podium finishes in a GP..

 

That's exactly my point.

 

I am in no way saying the series is fautless, but it does make me laugh when riders, promoters, ex riders etc all say how much the GP has changed speedway for the better, yet the "experts" on here still talk it down..

 

I'm sure it's great for the riders, but there I was thinking they were the employees rather than the employers. The bottom line is surely about ensuring the sport can pay it's way, which ultimately means running the sport for the benefit of the spectators (and possibly sponsors) rather than the riders.

 

I'm not sure which promoters are actually saying what a good thing the SGP is, but given the promotional abilities of many of the current shower, I'm not sure their views are especially valid.

 

Some promoters moan about the GP - and for one reason only, they get p*ssed off that their riders go missing.. Well run the league better, get a set night or 2 for British league racing, use the Sky money & other sponsorship better to pay competitve wages & it might all be a little easier..

 

And why should the national leagues bend over backwards for the SGP? They're the ones that provide the riders' bread-and-butter (see how many riders would be prepared to only ride in the SGP if the leagues called their bluff), yet the SGP has choice of plum dates and race-days and the leagues have absolutely no say in the matter. Why should the British leagues be forced to run on less lucrative midweek dates, when they're the ones that develop and employ many of the riders that the SGP uses, only for IMG/BSI to skim-off the cream.

 

As for 'getting better sponsorship', well what serious sponsor is going to want to get involved with a competition where the main competitors go missing every couple of weeks, and are replaced with guests of varying quality? It has nothing to do with paying competitive wages either, because the riders undoubtedly earn far more from the BEL over season already. The problem is that the BSPA have allowed the riders to have their cake and eat it (i.e. participate in the SGP regardless of the consequences to domestic fixtures).

Edited September 24, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[RPNY 608]

I think you'll find it has a lot to do with paying competitive wages. The money availiable in the Polish, Russian & even Swedish leagues is much better than in the BEL. And if we dont try and match that then most of the better Riders will race in these leagues instead of in Britain. Look at the English soccer leagues.. Most of the best players now play over here because of money, up untill 10/15 years ago they were mostly in Italy/Spain cos thats where the money was.

With Regards to the league bending over backwards, that is just life I'm afraid.. Rugby players miss club games in order to play for their country/ in world cups, Cricketers ditto, the football premier league has to have Saturdays with no fixtures because of internationals - I'm sure there are other sports I could name...Top level should take priority..

[Kevin Meynell 2]

I think you'll find it has a lot to do with paying competitive wages. The money availiable in the Polish, Russian & even Swedish leagues is much better than in the BEL.

 

That's nothing to do with the SGP though, which pays a relative pittance by comparison.

 

And if we dont try and match that then most of the better Riders will race in these leagues instead of in Britain.

 

Aside from the fact that Britain shouldn't bankrupt ourselves trying to pay wages we can't afford, how on earth are we expected to improve the situation whilst the SGP takes prime racenights away from the league? The Russians are subsidised by dodgy oil money, the Poles race on Sundays which is the traditional day for sport in Catholic countries, and for some reason, midweek dates happen to work well in Sweden.

 

Look at the English soccer leagues.. Most of the best players now play over here because of money, up untill 10/15 years ago they were mostly in Italy/Spain cos thats where the money was.

Rugby players miss club games in order to play for their country/ in world cups, Cricketers ditto, the football premier league has to have Saturdays with no fixtures because of internationals

 

The situations are entirely different. In cricket and rugby union, internationals generate most of the money which is distributed downwards to the clubs. In fact in cricket, there would be no professional domestic competitions without the internationals. More specifically though, international competitions are run by the national authorities for the benefit of their member clubs.

 

Speedway is completely the opposite because the riders make their living in the national leagues, not from the supposed top-level of competition (i.e. the SGP). In fact, the SGP couldn't exist without the national leagues.

 

Moreover, the SGP is run by IMG/BSI for the benefit of itself. The profits are not reinvested in domestic speedway, or to compensate tracks for the loss of revenue they incur through losing their prime race days, but instead go into private pockets. The (relatively small) licence fees they pay to the FIM for the SGP rights vanish into the FIM coffers (and were allegedly used to pay-out the prize money in the past) and certainly do not appear to filter back to speedway.

 

BTW - Football is a slightly unusual situation because internationals have traditionally been used to generate money for grassroots football, rather than for the professional clubs. For many years this was considered an acceptable compromise, but now as everyone has got more greedy, the clubs have indeed started to challenge the concept of providing their players free-of-charge for no direct benefit to themselves.

 

Top level should take priority..

 

The competitions that generate the most revenue for the sport should take priority. Normally that will be the top-level, but this is not the case in speedway.

 

I personally would have little objection to the SGP if it were collectively run by the major professional leagues, with the profits going back to their member tracks. I think it's completely unacceptable for a private organisation to be benefiting from a premier competition without returning anything to the sport. I say good luck to John Postlethwaite for seeing the opportunity and turning it into a nice little earner for himself, but that doesn't change the fact that the major national leagues should never have allowed the SGP to be relinquished in the first place.

Edited September 24, 2007 by Kevin Meynell

[RPNY 608]

But in a indirect way it has helped british league speedway as the profile of the sport has gone up, league speedway has been shown on TV since '99, Sky money has gone into Brish speedway, new tracks have oepned up all over the country.. It's just a shame the Elite league is run like a sh it show at the moment.

Ok so JP & BSI havent directly handed over cash but they have had a positve effect in some ways.. I get the feeling you wont agree though...

[Trees 2,814]

You haven't a leg to stand on Tex ................. JP and BSI have had a positive effect, in what way, from a fan's point of view I don't think league speedway has changed since BSI took over the GP league ................. of course if the FIM hadn't allowed BSI to buy the rights but let the leagues/countries run their own GP to benefit their own speedway infrastructure, then things would surely be different and speedway as a whole would have gained!

But in a indirect way it has helped british league speedway as the profile of the sport has gone up, league speedway has been shown on TV since '99

Surely you can't put this down to BSI, surely SKY would have taken on League speedway anyhow???

[Kevin Meynell 2]

But in a indirect way it has helped british league speedway as the profile of the sport has gone up, league speedway has been shown on TV since '99, Sky money has gone into Brish speedway

 

It has perhaps prevented speedway from completely sinking below the radar, but I would certainly argue that it hasn't benefitted domestic speedway in any practical way. I'd wager that average attendances are now significantly lower than before BSI got involved in speedway, and whilst I certainly wouldn't lay this downturn all at their door, they have certainly not contributed to any material improvement at the domestic level.

 

Some will argue that BSI were responsible for getting the BEL on television, and consequently getting some money from Sky. However, aside from the fact that the BSPA allegedly originally had to pay Sky to show speedway, the money has arguably only propped-up an ailing competition and allowed tough decisions to be put-off.

 

new tracks have oepned up all over the country.

 

That was more to do with introduction of the more cost-effective BPL (as a second division) in 1997, and arguably the BCL a year-or-two earlier. The spiralling costs of the 'big' BPL and BL2 before it had driven several tracks out of business, but the introduction of a three-tier structure provided more options.

 

I think you'll find most of the new tracks started-up in the 1997-2000 period, before BSI got involved in the sport.

[spiegal 294]

Well done you people.

 

Some very good, well blanced, thoughtful, and idot free discussion.

 

Whether you agree or disagree, it is good to raise the level above the banal and trivial.

 

I cannot comment as I am directly involved. But teh main gripe I have is that i didn't think of the whole series first.

 

Lack of nuts, lack of serious dosh.

 

Ah well...but well done everyone, an interesting series on this forum.

[BUDGIE 35]

Kevin, as you can see by the details below, I have only been kept interested in Speedway for the last 10 years by the SGPs.

 

No-one to support?, what about the English boys?, are they not worthy?

 

I must say not having a team to support has raised my patriotism!

 

 

Cheers

K

 

PS

Birmingham have benefitted this year from SGPs keeping me interested!

[BUDGIE 35]

Well done you people.

 

Some very good, well blanced, thoughtful, and idot free discussion.

 

Whether you agree or disagree, it is good to raise the level above the banal and trivial.

 

I cannot comment as I am directly involved. But teh main gripe I have is that i didn't think of the whole series first.

 

Lack of nuts, lack of serious dosh.

 

Ah well...but well done everyone, an interesting series on this forum.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

 

 

Who's going to..............

 

Sorry only joking spiegal!

 

 

K

[The Know 221]

It has perhaps prevented speedway from completely sinking below the radar, but I would certainly argue that it hasn't benefitted domestic speedway in any practical way. I'd wager that average attendances are now significantly lower than before BSI got involved in speedway, and whilst I certainly wouldn't lay this downturn all at their door, they have certainly not contributed to any material improvement at the domestic level.

 

Some will argue that BSI were responsible for getting the BEL on television, and consequently getting some money from Sky. However, aside from the fact that the BSPA allegedly originally had to pay Sky to show speedway, the money has arguably only propped-up an ailing competition and allowed tough decisions to be put-off.

That was more to do with introduction of the more cost-effective BPL (as a second division) in 1997, and arguably the BCL a year-or-two earlier. The spiralling costs of the 'big' BPL and BL2 before it had driven several tracks out of business, but the introduction of a three-tier structure provided more options.

 

I think you'll find most of the new tracks started-up in the 1997-2000 period, before BSI got involved in the sport.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I have no interest in british speedway really. Only interested in Grand Prix as far better. You can make a weekend of it and not be bored out of your mind within 30 seconds as with british domestic speedway.

[Subedei 0]

Interesting off-track times ahead for the GPs, I suspect. At the minute it is not altogether clear in which direction IMG see the circus taking. When the take-over was announced I speculated that IMG would perhaps look to have central contracts for the permanent fifteen. But that would entail IMG and the FIM significantly increasing payments to the riders in order to have a manner of control over them. But could the GPs sustain that? At the minute the GPs are largely subsidised by the various leagues - the leagues are the major paymasters of the riders, with the GPs being a "glory trip".

It all comes down to IMG's understanding of the dynamics of the sport and Postlethwaite's brief sojourn in the BEL didn't illustrate much understanding - all of a sudden he was on the other side of the fence and what a mess he made of it. The GPs were easy money for Postlethwaite.

[RPNY 608]

I think you'll find most of the new tracks started-up in the 1997-2000 period, before BSI got involved in the sport

 

Redcar, Brum, Somerset, Scunny, Weymouth, Plymouth.. They were all way after 2000 mate..

I also disagree with you saying crowds are down in domestic leagues since BSI involvemenet.. Look at last night for eg.. once again I'll say that in no way are BSI fautless, but to say that their involvment has not benifited British Speedway at all is just not true IMO

[Trees 2,814]

I have no interest in british speedway really. Only interested in Grand Prix as far better. You can make a weekend of it and not be bored out of your mind within 30 seconds as with british domestic speedway.

No league racing ............ no GPs! Or perhaps you come from Mars so you don't have a team to support

Edited September 25, 2007 by Trees