bazaar3 0 Posted July 15, 2008 What as bomber made because he hasnt made it as a world class rider yet. So if a rider who has won a GP and been in the GP's for the last few seasons is not world class, wtf do you call world class.... I suppose he is shy of world class like a Johnno or a Howe... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Subedei 0 Posted July 15, 2008 He was good, last season. And this season, apparently without Brian Andersen's presence? Well, he doesn't seem to amount to much, does he? One heat win in the GPs so far this season. Not very good, is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted July 15, 2008 Unfortunately I tend to agree that speedway in this country is in a bigger mess than some people seem to think and the BSPA itself do a great job of "Looking after their own" because to be honest they couldn't give a monkeys about Team GB Well IMG are the promoters of the WTC competition, if they want TeamGB to perform well they will have to pay for tuning bikes etc etc won't they? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Trees 2,814 Posted July 15, 2008 Even thing like the star don t help week after danish gp we have a picture of danish kids on small motocross bike yet after cardiff nothing yet we had 8 lads and three races go figure. I don't get the Star at the moment but you're right it's pretty poor by them to not carry pics of the boys at Cardiff ......................... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SUPERACE 441 Posted July 15, 2008 So if a rider who has won a GP and been in the GP's for the last few seasons is not world class, wtf do you call world class.... I suppose he is shy of world class like a Johnno or a Howe... A rider who is living off winning 1 GP. Winning 1 doesnt make you world class and lets remember he was only in the GP last year because of a wild card, Oh and lets not forget he is also only in this years gp because of a wild card and will almost certainly fail again to qualify by merit for next years event. Im not a bomber basher as I do like him and hopefully he will start to improve in the next couple of years but as yet he is nothing more than a good 8 point elite league rider and not even an out and out number 1. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
771neil 31 Posted July 16, 2008 I would like to add that there is a crop of good kids (12 to 15 years old) riding at the moment most of them don t have there names on vans or web site and the ones with nice suits and covers have had them sponsored cause all there money goes on travel, bikes and training costs but if they don t get track time and advice then how many will make it. Some fans seem to think its easy but truth is you have a lot of travelling to do then theres the maintance of bikes plus dads need to work i know that i have spent at least ten thousand pounds this year on my lads racing and he one of the lucky ones that has 6 sponsors so i would hate to think how much the dads who can t find sponsors cope. Jim Lynch says its not all doom and gloom and he many be right but if somethin s not done soon they it will be and we might even struggle to make the wtc all together. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) He hasn't had the best year he hasn't had the worst year either, it isn't the most surprising thing to see a rider have a consolidating year after hitting the level Chris did last year, He is still at the very early stages of his GP & SWC career, he has plenty of time to reach " world class " status , whether he ever will or not is open for debate, but I don't think he should be written of just yet. This was in reply to Subs Harris post. Edited July 16, 2008 by wjm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spook 28 Posted July 16, 2008 I think one of the biggest ironies with this situation is that we can almost guarantee that once something happens like we finish last in a race off or dont even make the race off...... then all of a sudden the promoters will jump into action.............. I think that they do care but generally as speedway promoters they only care about whats right in front of their noses or what affects them over the season ahead As with everything in our fine sport in this country unless people start looking ahead further than tomorrow then it is going to be that much harder to do anything about. p.s. there is absolutely no issue with chris harris ...he has won a gp... missed out on automatic qualification by 1 point .... is above NKI and Lindgren in the BL averages .... and like those two is still improving and safely be described as world class......... just like Scott Nicholls he is at the top of the game.... how they perform at that level is a different matter.................... what we are talking about here are the amount of guys allowed to come through who have a genuine chance of joining them Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Fromafar 10,499 Posted July 16, 2008 In Scott Nichols and Chris Harris Britain have 2 riders that are at GP level . IMO we have nobody else even close at this moment.Apart from Tai Woffinden i personaly cannot see where the next GP rider is coming from. If we believe the hype Britain have the riders but cant set up their bikes to suit the track conditions WHAT A LOAD OF SH*T. Dont know the answer either! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Subedei 0 Posted July 16, 2008 In Scott Nichols and Chris Harris Britain have 2 riders that are at GP level . IMO we have nobody else even close at this moment. And between them they've managed two race wins in the GPs this season. I'd question whether either of them is "GP level" - Harris' win last year looks more and more like dumb luck, while the global superstar hasn't won a GP in over sixty attempts. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mikegum 0 Posted July 16, 2008 (edited) I would like to add that there is a crop of good kids (12 to 15 years old) riding at the moment most of them don t have there names on vans or web site and the ones with nice suits and covers have had them sponsored cause all there money goes on travel, bikes and training costs but if they don t get track time and advice then how many will make it. Some fans seem to think its easy but truth is you have a lot of travelling to do then theres the maintance of bikes plus dads need to work i know that i have spent at least ten thousand pounds this year on my lads racing and he one of the lucky ones that has 6 sponsors so i would hate to think how much the dads who can t find sponsors cope. Jim Lynch says its not all doom and gloom and he many be right but if somethin s not done soon they it will be and we might even struggle to make the wtc all together. This is a really interesting post Neil, I tried my hand at speedway in the early 80s & judging by your comments little has changed, in fact things may actually be worse, at least we had Lew Coffin down at Weymouth or Bob Humphreys at Milton Keynes who ran regular training schools. All the major speedway leagues now have proper schoolboy/girl facilities, professional coaches & transition and practice schemes with equipment funds to help the lads along. And as regards the 'sign written van' argument, I lost track of the number of times that young riders were dumped from second half rides because XYX rider from abroad had turned up with 2 bikes and a van...when our lads have good kit its flashy, when they are from abroad its professional? Don't get me wrong, I love watching many of the overseas riders & most are good blokes but we have to stop being a finishing school for other countries & do more to focus on our own talent before we waste another group of riders. We cannot just rely on the goodwill of parents and hope to remain a topline speedway nation. Neil- best of luck to you and your lad! Edited July 16, 2008 by mikegum Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wjm 261 Posted July 16, 2008 In response to the original post, fans support there team first and foremost and there country second or at least the majority do. I do agree that fans want results from a Brit from there fist time on track and offer very little time or perseverance to they riders, more so if there struggle costs there club team points. But that's what being a fan of a team is about you need to win its the same case being a promoter of a team you need to win. If the team fails due to persevering with non progressive Brits and eventually leads to poor crowds and results and the closure of the club is it really worth it ? If the team signs a Brit who is young genuinely talented say for example Auty I guess this is a similar case to Saijfutinov, he was a barging on 3.00 he was the talent every one wanted, if he got that many offers from different clubs would money become a priority to him rather than his career progressing ?. Yet again putting the club that wants a Brit in a difficult position. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
spook 28 Posted July 16, 2008 In response to the original post, fans support there team first and foremost and there country second or at least the majority do. I do agree that fans want results from a Brit from there fist time on track and offer very little time or perseverance to they riders, more so if there struggle costs there club team points. But that's what being a fan of a team is about you need to win its the same case being a promoter of a team you need to win. If the team fails due to persevering with non progressive Brits and eventually leads to poor crowds and results and the closure of the club is it really worth it ? If the team signs a Brit who is young genuinely talented say for example Auty I guess this is a similar case to Saijfutinov, he was a barging on 3.00 he was the talent every one wanted, if he got that many offers from different clubs would money become a priority to him rather than his career progressing ?. Yet again putting the club that wants a Brit in a difficult position. What you are talking about with Josh Auty though is very different to what we are talking about in general here.......... not only that but you raise one of the few examples in recent years of a Brit being chased rather than a youngster from another country being chased........... exciting young talent will always be chased and they will always have the opportunity to raise their demands........ unless of course it is regulated ............. the difference is should we allow the exciting young talent from every speedway nation in the world to be an option on a low average in what is in effect one of our training leagues? The point here is that for every Auty, Woffinden, Bridger etc there should be 10 others coming through with each of them............ there will always be those guys who are earmarked at an early age for greatness..... but there will always be those earmarked for greatness who never get there...... as there are also those who arent earmarked for greatness who do get there............ what we are talking about here are opportunities and volume Which clubs have closed due to supporting brits? I'm very confused you have most definitely suggested that if clubs started doing this they would close.................. more to the point why arent promoters looking at the likes of Len Silver and seeing that the overseas asset game is just stocks and shares?.... a mini gambling game within what is supposed to be a professional sport.............. how much do we think Steve Boxall is 'worth' in loan fees or full transfer? non progressive brits? eh? who is non progressive? we've been here before wjm .... and i'm sorry to say but the post you have created is exactly the type of post I was describing in my opening post when i said: Every thread that comes up that discusses our grass roots and the youngsters that are or arent coming through we always have those supporters who's attitude towards it is defensive and almost as if they are replying on behalf of their own club's policy I am pleased that you back Peter Waite and his most dubious transfer policy and choices in what riders he supports and which ones he discards after they have become an asset or a better option has come up somewhere in the far reaches of eastern europe ...... but overall it does no good for the league.... and lets face it overall it hasnt really done much good for Peter or the Bandits over the years.............. assets are an illusion and yet they are guiding the policies of most clubs .... and in the most negative way for the opportunities of our guys Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ashie 0 Posted July 16, 2008 Not sure about anyone else but when the longest post ever has been posted going over the same thing that is being discussed in numerous other threads, I really can't be arsed to read it. Spook do me a favour and sumarise what you have said for me please I think that sums this forum up, people who do not have the intelligence to read beyond one line and put up good, constructive debates. The originating thread starter put together a very thought provoking and constructive discussion topic and made some very valid points and the first reply he gets is.. "I really can't be arsed to read it." Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ashie 0 Posted July 16, 2008 A rider who is living off winning 1 GP. In fairness I don't think Chris is living off winning one GP, all be it the British GP it is Sky who have made him out to be a superstar rider from that single one GP. I dare say Harris himself admits he needs to be reaching semi-finals consistently to take him to that next stage in his development. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
