fatface 2,554 Posted January 27, 2012 Before I do, where's the likes of Lionel van Praag, Bluey Wilkosn, Lamoreaux, both Milnes and Jack Paerker for example? I didn't include them because I am a rabid age-ist! I just took 20 names off the top of my head. If you don't think this is a good enough 20, well it should make your job a lot easier then. Are you going to be able to argue Mike Bast is better than any of those? Or are you going to change the subject again? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
oldace 1,678 Posted January 27, 2012 I didn't include them because I am a rabid age-ist! I just took 20 names off the top of my head. If you don't think this is a good enough 20, well it should make your job a lot easier then. Are you going to be able to argue Mike Bast is better than any of those? Or are you going to change the subject again? Like I said on the other thread, Bast had good results in the USA, even in OZ, but the competition he was against were just there on a glorified holiday. Who did he ever beat in real competition, he only rode in the 77 ICF and was hopelessly outclassed. Thats not to say he couldnt have developed but based on the facts as they are, rather than conjecture, Bast would make no ones top 200 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted January 27, 2012 I didn't include them because I am a rabid age-ist! I just took 20 names off the top of my head. If you don't think this is a good enough 20, well it should make your job a lot easier then. Are you going to be able to argue Mike Bast is better than any of those? Or are you going to change the subject again? Falcace i think you could name another 180 if you needed to? cant wait to hear a response from Speedyguy.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveG 1 Posted May 19, 2012 (edited) Yes I have read the title of the thread but it has drifted far away from that at times. Loved the drama of the one off Finals and done this before whether we like that he mainly won his races by gating Dave Jessup should have been World Champion under the Old System. Ok lets shift the Grand prix system back into the 1960's and 1970's so now we have the situation that Ivan Mauger wins even more titles than he did already because nobody had the stamina that he had for such a long period of time. All of us me included talk up other riders such as Kennett ( 2 great years many other good years) , Collins , Olsen et al but for sheer bloody mindeness Mauger would have just accrued so many points by rostrum finishes that the 70's would have been his more than they already are. Consistent performers well that brings Kennett back in and Simmons and Autrey so they would have got more runners up places. Oh I didnt like Mauger then was young and wanted my own riders to win Old now more reflective and its just him with a GP system. Edited May 20, 2012 by DaveG Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted May 21, 2012 Ok lets shift the Grand prix system back into the 1960's and 1970's so now we have the situation that Ivan Mauger wins even more titles than he did already because nobody had the stamina that he had for such a long period of time. All of us me included talk up other riders such as Kennett ( 2 great years many other good years) , Collins , Olsen et al but for sheer bloody mindeness Mauger would have just accrued so many points by rostrum finishes that the 70's would have been his more than they already are. Consistent performers well that brings Kennett back in and Simmons and Autrey so they would have got more runners up places. Oh I didnt like Mauger then was young and wanted my own riders to win Old now more reflective and its just him with a GP system. Interesting thoughts Dave M, but have to say I disagree. Mauger – I think he would probably have finished on the podium every year from 67-79, but I reckon he would have only finished with 6 or 7 world titles (68-72, 74), so no major increase. Kennett – I don’t think he would have made any rostrum appearances under a GP system. 78 was arguably his best year, but I think the top 3 that year would have been Olsen, Mauger and Simmons. And in fact, I think it’s questionable as to whether he would have actually qualified for the 78 series in the first place. Simmons – I think would have finished third in 76 and 78, can’t think of any other seasons where I would have tipped him for a podium finish. Autrey – I reckon would have come close to top three in 78/79, maybe picked up one medal. Interested to hear your thought son the years you think Mauger would have picked up titles, and Kennet/Simmons/Autry medals. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted May 21, 2012 And then there's Olsen. I loved to hate the Greeat Dane but looking back he won most of the top class indiv./open meetings I went to in that mid-70s period so if they'd been a GP I would have thought Ole would've been winning them all at that time rather than Mauger... Apart from '77 when clearly PC ruled the world.. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted May 21, 2012 And then there's Olsen. I loved to hate the Greeat Dane but looking back he won most of the top class indiv./open meetings I went to in that mid-70s period so if they'd been a GP I would have thought Ole would've been winning them all at that time rather than Mauger... Apart from '77 when clearly PC ruled the world.. PC should of been a two time world champion, deserved it i still believe if the referee had made the right exclusions Lee could of won it in 77 at his young age. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted May 21, 2012 Interesting thoughts Dave M, but have to say I disagree. Mauger – I think he would probably have finished on the podium every year from 67-79, but I reckon he would have only finished with 6 or 7 world titles (68-72, 74), so no major increase. Kennett – I don’t think he would have made any rostrum appearances under a GP system. 78 was arguably his best year, but I think the top 3 that year would have been Olsen, Mauger and Simmons. And in fact, I think it’s questionable as to whether he would have actually qualified for the 78 series in the first place. Simmons – I think would have finished third in 76 and 78, can’t think of any other seasons where I would have tipped him for a podium finish. Autrey – I reckon would have come close to top three in 78/79, maybe picked up one medal. Interested to hear your thought son the years you think Mauger would have picked up titles, and Kennet/Simmons/Autry medals. I would say Mauger 1969 till 78? would of been hard to keep out of the three everyyear its hard to pick the years but i think he would of won more than 6 titles over his career .Olsen for me only won 3 titles but in a way is very underated a truelly outstanding rider and i laugh when some say he couldnt pass wind only a starter.After PC olsen was as good as most at coming from the back.From 1969 till 79 i think Simmons and Autrey would of had a big say Autrey could of been argued at his best would of been better in a gp series format. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted May 21, 2012 Parsloes - other than 75 & 78, what years do you think Olsen would have won? 72 I'd say a 1-2-3 of Mauger, Olsen, Briggs 73 Michanek, Mauger, Olsen 74 Mauger, Olsen, Michanek 76 Collins, Mauger, Simmons. 77 PC, Olsen, Mauger. 79: Lee, Olsen, Mauger I have Olsen down for 75&78, the next closest I would say 77, because PC would have been riding on one leg for the last three rounds, 79 also a close call, but I think Lee would have won one title, and that was arguably his best year. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DaveG 1 Posted May 21, 2012 Hi Guys great posts and glad to see I am not the only one in my 70's world. Thanks for chat. Guys do you still attend and where I am sort of looking at going back to it but from Beds/Bucks area and appear devoid of the sport. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keef 105 Posted May 21, 2012 Hi Guys great posts and glad to see I am not the only one in my 70's world. Thanks for chat. Guys do you still attend and where I am sort of looking at going back to it but from Beds/Bucks area and appear devoid of the sport. The Swindon Abbey stadium in Wiltshire is definitely the best speedway venue in the UK for top-notch racing action on a Thursday night(when it stops raining). Just dont visit the back-straight loos and you'll be fine. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted May 21, 2012 The Swindon Abbey stadium in Wiltshire is definitely the best speedway venue in the UK for top-notch racing action on a Thursday night(when it stops raining). Just dont visit the back-straight loos and you'll be fine. Keef how dare you, you could eat your dinner off the floor in those loos.Same loos were there in 1968 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
waiheke1 4,295 Posted May 22, 2012 Hi Guys great posts and glad to see I am not the only one in my 70's world. Thanks for chat. Guys do you still attend and where I am sort of looking at going back to it but from Beds/Bucks area and appear devoid of the sport. Western Springs. Sure its a bit of a commute from Beds/Bucks, and there's only 1 meeting per season, BUT... this year's was a hell of a good meeting! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
keef 105 Posted May 23, 2012 Keef how dare you, you could eat your dinner off the floor in those loos.Same loos were there in 1968 The same shiny Izal toilet paper as well sidders, and it hasnt been cleaned since my first visit in 1968.It should be a listed building...it used to be so easy to climb in at the Abbey, but now its more secure than Colditz Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
stratton 1,491 Posted May 24, 2012 The same shiny Izal toilet paper as well sidders, and it hasnt been cleaned since my first visit in 1968.It should be a listed building...it used to be so easy to climb in at the Abbey, but now its more secure than Colditz Yes i have done that in my youth Keef which was a long time ago my dad always wondered how i came home with loads of programmes.(with the money i saved).Funny thing is loads of blokes i knew used to get in by the greyhound traps on the dear side great days my week was lived looking towards every saturday sad really. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites