Wessex Wanderer 148 Posted December 4, 2009 I know there have been references to individual clips from Pathe News on here but cannot recall one generally about their site. The URL is http://www.britishpathe.com/index.php and if you enter the word Speedway in the search box it comes up with some very interesting items. I had a look at clips from a 1933 Test, Jimmy Gooch in forces racing in Hanover, various World Finals, a Belle Vue wartime meeting, other Tests and Rye House post war training sessions. Be warned though, once you get started you will be glued to your computer for the rest of the day!!!! Again, apologies if I am posting something everyone is aware of but it would be a terrible shame for regulars in this section to miss all that wonderful history and nostalgia. :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BOBBATH 467 Posted December 5, 2009 Thanx for directing me to this site mate-its great-also got on to various Cup Finals and reviews of the year e.g. 1956-did so many men really wear ties all the time-I'd forgotten that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoMinuteWarning 69 Posted December 5, 2009 Can I suggest that, for some late 1920's - early 30's clips, you need to search for "dirt track" But to find the rare coverage of the famous High Beech Feb 19 1928 meeting, you need to search for "cinder track" - the clip is called "Greyhound's Racing Rival". The racing bears very little resemblance to the sport as we know it today. Many of these clips are now also available on youtube.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted January 11, 2010 Can I suggest that, for some late 1920's - early 30's clips, you need to search for "dirt track" Did so and found something right up speedyguy's street (er, track!): http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=50087 At first I excitedly thought this might be White City, but don't think it is... So where is this..? A big place.. Somewhere in Scotland perhaps..??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Fantasma Jinete 0 Posted January 11, 2010 Looks like Hampden Park Regards eFJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted January 11, 2010 Looks like Hampden Park Regards eFJ Thanks. I was fairly certain it was nowhere in London and as a pretty massive stadium, Hampden fits the bill!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted January 11, 2010 But to find the rare coverage of the famous High Beech Feb 19 1928 meeting, you need to search for "cinder track" - the clip is called "Greyhound's Racing Rival". The racing bears very little resemblance to the sport as we know it today. Is it just me Brian...: but when I open the High Beech footage you refer to I get a very annoying box saying "Loading" right smack bang in the middle of the screen - one which blocks out virtually all of the action. Very annoying but can't seem to lose it.. Don't get this problem on any other clips on that site..! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
El Fantasma Jinete 0 Posted January 11, 2010 Thanks. I was fairly certain it was nowhere in London and as a pretty massive stadium, Hampden fits the bill!!! looking again I'm not so sure, the terracing looks too steep. Hampden had quite shallow terracing Regards eFJ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoMinuteWarning 69 Posted January 11, 2010 Is it just me Brian...: but when I open the High Beech footage you refer to I get a very annoying box saying "Loading" right smack bang in the middle of the screen - one which blocks out virtually all of the action. Very annoying but can't seem to lose it.. Don't get this problem on any other clips on that site..! I haven't had that problem, Derek. Maybe your broadband speed was too low at the time? Try it at a less busy time. There is no sound on that clip, by the way. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedyguy 20 Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) Did so and found something right up speedyguy's street (er, track!): http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=50087 At first I excitedly thought this might be White City, but don't think it is... So where is this..? A big place.. Somewhere in Scotland perhaps..??? Thanks very much Derek. Naughty drivers - no crash helmets! My guess is that the venue is Wembley in the early 1930s. W ithout being accused of 'lamp posting' I will post this on the third link in my signature. There's some genuine experts on that discussion group who I am sure will identify this. When a reply comes over, I'll get back to you. Great stuff - I really appreciate this. Edited January 11, 2010 by speedyguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted January 11, 2010 Thanks very much Derek. Naughty drivers - no crash helmets! My guess is that the venue is Wembley in the early 1930s. W ithout being accused of 'lamp posting' I will post this on the third link in my signature. There's some genuine experts on thatdiscussion group who I am sure will identify this. When a reply comes over, I'll get back to you. Great stuff - I really appreciate this. I suppose it could be Wembley... No goal posts or football pitch markings...? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted January 11, 2010 It looks Wembley to me. The entrance to the pits is almost unmistakable in the middle of the two bends, as was the terracing on the corners not covered then only the straights. Like speedway, they would lift the grass pitch corners and also inside parts of the straights losing most of the pitch markings and remove the goal posts, I would imagine. Yes of course. Wembley looked so different without the roof to the stands! So, what was this all about then..? Clearly happening on this occasion in an empty stadium, did this car racing actually take part in fronnt of a Wembley crowd ever..? Part of a Speedway meeting perhaps.? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Thischarmingman 18 Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) In no way is it Hampden Park, the terracing is far too steep, like a previous poster said, and I don't think Hampden ever had a tunnel/entrance on the bend. It also only had one stand and the seating did not go right down to ground level (there was an enclosure between the front of the stand and the track), like it does in this footage. My suggestion was going to be Wembley as well, based on some old pictures you can find on various websites. Edited January 11, 2010 by Thischarmingman Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TwoMinuteWarning 69 Posted January 11, 2010 Just found an ad for Wembley, Sat 16 July, 1938 : SPEEDWAY CAR RACING - Wembley Gold Cup Championship, 16 Ace Drivers. This was just a car meeting, no speedway on the programme. But if they were having a meeting to themselves, I'm sure there would have been a practice first. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedyguy 20 Posted January 11, 2010 (edited) I suppose it could be Wembley... No goal posts or football pitch markings...? I HOPE THESE POSTS FROM MIDGET CAR PANORAMA PROVIDE THE ANSWER IN REGARD TO WHAT TRACK THE PATHE NEWS CLIP WAS TAKEN AT. MIDGET CAR PANORAMA Author Topic: Any ideas? Is it 1934 (Read 131 times) tobyhalter Junior Member member is offline Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Thread Started on Dec 4, 2009, 9:00am »  Try this link and come up with some answers. I think the driver in glasses might be Walter Mackereth? http://www.britishpathe.com/record.php?id=50087 Link to Post - Back to Top  86.177.115.21 derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #1 on Dec 4, 2009, 10:23am »  The stadium is obviously Wembley. As for the cars and drivers; I remember reading about this event in one of the several books written about the history of Frazer-Nash cars. I'm afraid I can't remember which book, but apparently the owners of Wembley invited the company to bring along a couple of their works cars to test the viability of car racing at the track. Because Wembley was such a huge venture they would try anything to get the public in and earn a bob or two! I doubt if the driver in the glasses was Walter Mackereth as he was working at Harry Skirrows garage up at Ambleside at the time. Harry and the gang didn't move south until about 36. Derek Bridgett Newcastle-under-Lyme Link to Post - Back to Top  193.25.116.40 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #2 on Dec 4, 2009, 11:54pm »  Can't say for sure if it's '34, but it may be even earlier. I'll tell you why in a moment. But if anyone can identify those particular Frazer Nash cars, that may help to date it. I'm fairly certain it's Wembley before they installed the "roof" section that was there by the 1970's, and the guy in the glasses is H.J Aldington. He is of further interest to us for several reasons. Firstly, he took part in the Greenford meeting of 1928, along with Archie Frazer Nash. Aldington was clearly a lover of F-N cars, because he drove one at Greenford, and later acquired the company (AFN) after Frazer Nash himself lost control of it. Furthermore, Aldington was involved in a car demonstration at Wembley as early as October 1931. This apparently took place during (the second half?) a speedway match involving Wembley, Stamford Bridge and Lea Bridge, supposedly in front of a crowd of 60,000! If this information is correct, I'm assuming this was either a three team tournament or a double header of some kind. Obviously the Pathe News clip is not from this event, as the terraces are empty. But it could be from around that time, (was it, as Derek suggests, a trial to see if cars worked on the track at all perhaps?) making it even earlier than '34. In the absence of further details emerging, it may be that the date all hinges on exactly what models those cars are and the date by which they could/would have been in use.  Attachment: HJAldington1935.jpg (17.7 KB) « Last Edit: Dec 4, 2009, 11:57pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 administrator Administrator member is online Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 329 Karma: 1 Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #3 on Dec 5, 2009, 9:00am »  Here is a quote from the section UK MIDGET CAR HISTORY, CHAPTER THREE. It may throw light on the Pathe News clip and date the venture as 1931. It reads: "At the old ‘traditional’ Wembley Stadium, then hosting the Wembley Lions speedway team, cars similar to those which had appeared at Greenford were given track time in October 1931. "A crowd of 60,000 turned up at Wembley on October 1 - mainly to see the Lions in action against Stamford Bridge. Three cars went into action after the speedway match. The drivers were Mrs T H Wisdom and respected Brooklands drivers R G Nash an H J Aldington. They all carried passengers. Mrs Wisdom and Aldington in Frazer Nash’s clocked times of 24 seconds for a flying lap start. "Nash then had trouble getting his car started and borrowed Mrs Wisdom’s car. His attempt ended in disaster. He went into a broadside and overturned the car. While Nash held on to the steering wheel, his pasenger F Berry was thrown out and suffered an arm injury." « Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 9:03am by administrator » Link to Post - Back to Top  Logged http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi kiwikid34 Junior Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #4 on Dec 5, 2009, 9:29am »   Can the non-driver in the Frazer Nash be the great man himself - Archie Frazer Nash? Newsreel most likely 1931 at the pre-race practice for the race in October. Link to Post - Back to Top  86.179.61.179 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #5 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:18pm »   Whoever that is riding shotgun, it isn't Frazer Nash. I'd guess a journalist or broadcaster. Attachment: Archie Frazer Nash.jpg (26.9 KB) Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #6 on Dec 5, 2009, 4:49pm »  Of course, we don't know who was driving the other car... (Don't bother clicking to enlarge - the close up quality is dreadful, sorry)  Attachment: Nash badge.jpg (18.2 KB) « Last Edit: Dec 5, 2009, 4:50pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #7 on Dec 7, 2009, 9:36am »   Found these two photos taken from a couple of the many books written about Frazer-Nash. Take a look at the web site www.austiharris.co.uk and enter Greenford in the search box and you should find a few photos from the 28 meeting. Derek Bridgett Newcastle-under-Lyme Attachment: frazer nash.jpg (620.8 KB) Link to Post - Back to Top  193.25.116.40 tobyhalter Junior Member member is offline Joined: Jun 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 58 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #8 on Dec 7, 2009, 9:12pm »   Maybe the Frazer Nash cars at Greenford are not recognised as midgets (perhaps because the name had not been coined at the time in 1928 or 1929?) but they look better than some of the cars that appear in photos of races at Crystal Palace and Belle Vue in 1934 and 1935 before the Gnat, Eltos and Skirrows came on the track scene. Link to Post - Back to Top  86.181.13.47 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #9 on Dec 7, 2009, 10:57pm »   If you go back and look at the Pathe News footage again and freeze the action at 0.29.44, you can clearly read the number plate on that car. Guess what - it's MV 158. However, the competition number on the side of the car is different. But I would say (a) that definitely dates this to 1931 and ( that the still picture Derek's posted and the film are both from the same event. My guess: the film is a pre-meeting trial, possibly largely put on for Pathe News's benefit, whereas the still picture is from practice on the actual day of the event, when the car is either wearing its competition number for that meeting, or the number it bore at another event in between the 'trial' and race day. « Last Edit: Dec 7, 2009, 10:59pm by haflinger121 » Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #10 on Dec 7, 2009, 11:20pm »   There are some great pix there Derek, I haven't seen any of those before. That link isn't quite right though - I took a guess that it should actually say 'austin' and this is where I ended up. Well worth the trip! http://www.austinharris.co.uk/photo/1928-j...ck-meeting/3170 Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 administrator Administrator member is online Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 329 Karma: 1 Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #11 on Dec 8, 2009, 9:12am »  Re the latest link:: The photos of Amilcars - great racers. And the name of the colourful Vernon Balls is also mentioned. A great character of the 1920s and 1930s. Link to Post - Back to Top  Logged http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway http://londonspeedways.proboards.com/index.cgi dirtpilot New Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 15 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #12 on Dec 8, 2009, 11:10am »   The record for 1 lap at Wembley was set by RGJ Nash on the 22/10/1931 in a time of 22.2 secs. this record still stood as of 31/5/1934. All cars that ran on the speedway in England were called "midgets" regardless, but it was not until late 1934/early 1935 that Jean Reville built the first real midgets,prior to this they were "light cars" Link to Post - Back to Top  58.173.148.76 haflinger121 Full Member member is offline Joined: Apr 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 171 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #13 on Dec 8, 2009, 8:58pm »   By 1937, the benefits of 4WD and a car purpose built for oval racing had enabled Harry Skirrow himself to lower the lap record at Wembley to 19.6 secs, 39.47 mph, recorded on June 17th '37. This record is given in the programme for the meeting of July 16th '38. Does anybody know what Skirrow was actually doing at Wembley in June of '37 - speedway second half appearance or something? Link to Post - Back to Top  81.129.151.231 dirtpilot New Member member is offline Joined: May 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 15 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #14 on Dec 9, 2009, 10:01am »   On 10/6/1937 Skirrow & MacKereth had a 25Pd challenge race after the bikes at Wembley,as Wembley was not in the Midget league i can only assume that on the 17th there was some demo or record attempt after the bikes. There is an undated mention of 3 cars appearing at the track after one of the regular meetings but the write-up stated that many of the fans had left & the cars were just a procession,this was in 1937 but i've no idea exactly when.  Author Topic: Any ideas? Is it 1934 (Read 133 times) derek New Member member is offline Joined: Mar 2009 Gender: Male  Posts: 31 Karma: 0 [ Exalt | Smite ] Re: Any ideas? Is it 1934 « Reply #15 on Dec 9, 2009, 10:03am »  This was a secondhalf appearance. He should have raced there the week before but the meeting was abondoned half awy through due to rain! Edited January 12, 2010 by speedyguy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
