Stoke Potters

liverpool chad · November 26, 2010

Theres a lot of things i could say, but its its better to keep it off a forum. So no matter how many times you fish, i wont bite.

You`ll post more than me on the subject as you must have more time, i have to go out to work, i take it you are either retired or on the dole, which either way im paying for your up keep through my taxes. (thats a different debate)

For a bloke with such strong views, its a shame you hadnt turned up at stoke more in recent seasons and put your money into the club like many others, maybe it wouldnt be in the current situation it finds itself.

This will be the last time i reply to you on this subject as i dont have to explain my opinions to a bloke who puts very little into the club. We can all sit at home pay for a net connection and have a pop at people who do spend money through the turnstiles at clubs, even if i dont agree how they have been run the place. cheerio

Stooge, You won't bite, because you don't know what's gone on, or is going to go on at Stoke. It's my guess that you just don't know all the facts.

Well what a juvenile comment your second one is!!! :lol: (you paying for my up keep through your taxes) :lol: If you only knew the half of it! Yes i am retired. I started work in 1963 never had a day off until starting my own company in 1976 which was sold earlier this year for a tidy sum. I doubt whether if you worked until you are 100 you will pay anywhere near the taxes that i have had to pay in my working life, in fact id bet that in the last 10 years iv'e payed more in taxes than you will earn in the next 50 years. So young man, it's me and me only that is paying for my up keep, one i have no doubt you couldn't afford anyway. :approve:

And as for your last comment, well! Iv'e put my money through the turnstiles, no question about that, having been to at least 3 sometimes 4 meetings a week since the mid 1970's up until the end of this last season. before that i was going to at least 1 sometimes 2 meetings a week from the early 1950's( as a child) up until the mid 1970's. And traveling vast amounts of miles in the process. Thats one hell of alot of meetings when you tot it all up, well it's considerably more than your quota of "all the home meetings and a couple of away ones!

So for all your talk, you still can't give one single piece of evidence that dropping into the NL is anything other than a cost cutting exercise critical to the future of speedway in Stoke. I know you are upset by the news of the drop, and i appreciate that emotions are a bit raw at the moment, especially for someone such as yourself, who has given his hard earned time and effort for Stoke speedway. But what ever way you box it up, some speedway is always better than no speedway, as i well know. Whenever i travel back to Liverpool to see friends or go to Goodison Park, it still hurts if i go down Presscot Rd and see where the stadium used to be, and what it has become. :sad:

So if i where in your shoes, i would give next season a go, as i'm sure you will. From what iv'e seen, the NL as a spectacle is as good as any of the other two leagues.

Regards

LC.

liverpool chad · November 26, 2010

Liverpool Chad - Stooge thought you were me. I'm a Stoke fan, although new to the Potters Forum.

The whole thing about the proposed move to the NL has understandably raised a lot of emotions with supporters. Not surprising because this has come out of the blue, with no indication that it was on the cards.

The adminstrator of the forum has has a conversation with Dave Tattum and having read the detail it is clear that the club has financial problems.

A lot of reasons have been given and discussed, such as lack of/poor facilities, lengthy meetings, lack of recognition of the supporters, etc., but one thing is certain the club has not put together a competitive side for many seasons. As a result supporters are frustrated, fed up and tired of being presented with promises at the start of each season that the team that has been put together will do the business, only to find that very soon after the season starts, with a few exceptions,these riders simply do not perform.

It is quite probable that much of this comes from the financial issues that are surfacing; like chicken and egg, the money is not there to recruit good riders and the riders we recuit just aren't good enough to produce the results which would increase support/revenue enabling better riders to be recruited.

However, the one thing all Stoke supporters know is that we have a damn good track that is capable of being ridden by anyone. There has never been any home advantage at Loomer Road and so it is almost impossible to understand how or why some of the riders we have had in the past have been almost totally incapable of riding it. Also I think that when you have a track as fair as ours you must have a strong team. Stoke supporters reading this will know how many times we've suffered at the hands of talented opposition reserves who have found the track good to ride and racked up the points, despite the fact that they have never seen it before.

The supporters have have become fed up with the promotion's inability to field a competitive side, for whatever reason, and as a result many I think have given up. The rest have been waiting patiently for something good to happen and in their eyes it isn't the NL. That comment does not imply that the NL is not a good league.

Last season we suffered badly with injuries, but the young lads (not one of them a heat leader!) rode their hearts out. I was looking forward to this season, hoping that we could retain them (I think most were on loan) add Jason Bunyan (back from injury) and add one more solid heatleader and we could have the makings of a good team. Maybe other supporters felt the same, but any hope we had of that has just been blown out of the water.

On a personal note, I have been a supporter since the Provincial League days. I 'missed' the restart in the 70s, but was a regular during the Crabtree, Monaghan, Jones and Collins periods.As the team quality declined and we continually stayed at or near the bottom of the league, my interest dwindled for many of the reasons mentioned above. When my garnddaughter arrived 12 years ago, I took her to ST.Austell in her pushchair for her first meeting and her interest has grown. I now take her to Stoke when SHE is available, but to be honest I find it difficult to raise the enthusiasm to go on my own. The big danger now is that those supporters who have been more regular than me will disappear in disgust at DT's unexpected decision and that will almost certainly spell the end of speedway in Stoke. My sincere hope is that once the emotions have settled down, the Stoke speedway fans will accept that any speedway in Stoke is better than none at all.

Apologies to all if I've gone on a bit.

By the way thanks to all existing NL supporters for their best wishes for Stoke in the NL (if we get there!)

Chad

Excellent post.

At last a bit of input into why the club have dropped down into the NL. As one or two others and myself said, Stoke dropping down to the NL can only be for financial reasons.

The current promoter has got his hands tied somewhat, with the fact that the stadium does not possess good basic facilities, so his paying customers can't watch what he has to offer in comfort, and he can't attract any new paying costumers due to the same problem. But the current promoter doesn't own the stadium, so theres next to nothing that he can do about that! The current promoter isn't a multi millionare, so he can't afford to pay top money to attract the top riders. So Stoke continue to flounder in the lower reaches of the second division. But because the promoter does not have money to throw about, theres next to nothing he can do about that! The only thing the current promoter can do, is to tell the Stoke fans that this next season we will assemble a squad thats going to be right up there at the top! Because if he say's "this next season i can only afford second string riders at best and a coupe of untested foreigners" then thats not good PR or good advertising of what he has to sell. Therefore the only thing he can fully control is the spin on things. But to be fair, once you see what sort of team he has assembled, then you will make up your own mind whether or not the team is capable of being right up there. and once it's happened once or twice, i would take their pre season predictions with a pinch of salt.

I think your spot on about the track being a disadvantage to Stoke aswell. IMO it's one of the best in the country, and therefore one which most riders can adjust to quite quickly. Belle Vue always had a similar problem at Hyde Road, but to be far always had a decent team to compliment their surroundings.

Oh, the provincial league days Great times, although when Liverpool reappeared in the early sixties i seem to remember getting beat most weeks Stoke had some really good seasons in the provincial era, finishing second a couple of times if i recall correctly.

Glad to see your introducing the next generation to the sport. Taken my grandkids to speedway, but alas its not their thing! My youngest grandson likes it though, but he lives in Sydney! :rolleyes:

Halifaxtiger · November 27, 2010

Liverpool Chad - Stooge thought you were me. I'm a Stoke fan, although new to the Potters Forum.

The whole thing about the proposed move to the NL has understandably raised a lot of emotions with supporters. Not surprising because this has come out of the blue, with no indication that it was on the cards.

The adminstrator of the forum has has a conversation with Dave Tattum and having read the detail it is clear that the club has financial problems.

A lot of reasons have been given and discussed, such as lack of/poor facilities, lengthy meetings, lack of recognition of the supporters, etc., but one thing is certain the club has not put together a competitive side for many seasons. As a result supporters are frustrated, fed up and tired of being presented with promises at the start of each season that the team that has been put together will do the business, only to find that very soon after the season starts, with a few exceptions,these riders simply do not perform.

It is quite probable that much of this comes from the financial issues that are surfacing; like chicken and egg, the money is not there to recruit good riders and the riders we recuit just aren't good enough to produce the results which would increase support/revenue enabling better riders to be recruited.

However, the one thing all Stoke supporters know is that we have a damn good track that is capable of being ridden by anyone. There has never been any home advantage at Loomer Road and so it is almost impossible to understand how or why some of the riders we have had in the past have been almost totally incapable of riding it. Also I think that when you have a track as fair as ours you must have a strong team. Stoke supporters reading this will know how many times we've suffered at the hands of talented opposition reserves who have found the track good to ride and racked up the points, despite the fact that they have never seen it before.

The supporters have have become fed up with the promotion's inability to field a competitive side, for whatever reason, and as a result many I think have given up. The rest have been waiting patiently for something good to happen and in their eyes it isn't the NL. That comment does not imply that the NL is not a good league.

Last season we suffered badly with injuries, but the young lads (not one of them a heat leader!) rode their hearts out. I was looking forward to this season, hoping that we could retain them (I think most were on loan) add Jason Bunyan (back from injury) and add one more solid heatleader and we could have the makings of a good team. Maybe other supporters felt the same, but any hope we had of that has just been blown out of the water.

On a personal note, I have been a supporter since the Provincial League days. I 'missed' the restart in the 70s, but was a regular during the Crabtree, Monaghan, Jones and Collins periods.As the team quality declined and we continually stayed at or near the bottom of the league, my interest dwindled for many of the reasons mentioned above. When my garnddaughter arrived 12 years ago, I took her to ST.Austell in her pushchair for her first meeting and her interest has grown. I now take her to Stoke when SHE is available, but to be honest I find it difficult to raise the enthusiasm to go on my own. The big danger now is that those supporters who have been more regular than me will disappear in disgust at DT's unexpected decision and that will almost certainly spell the end of speedway in Stoke. My sincere hope is that once the emotions have settled down, the Stoke speedway fans will accept that any speedway in Stoke is better than none at all.

Apologies to all if I've gone on a bit.

By the way thanks to all existing NL supporters for their best wishes for Stoke in the NL (if we get there!)

Chad

Gone on a bit maybe, but talked a lot of sense :approve:

Someone else has mentioned the bolt from the blue nature of this announcement being a cause of the anger and its a fair point. When Mildenhall dropped down,we all knew it was coming and that PL speedway was unsustainable at West Row. Those who let their head rule their heart (like Malcolm)knew it was always beyond their remit. Its why we were all delighted when the club dropped down to a level we believed it could afford and that speedway would continue. Sadly, that wasn't to be, but if Dave Tattum had been a little more straight it might have made a little difference.

You are dead right about the lack of a competitive team;if you haven't got the finances you can't put the team out, so supporters stay away and this just continues in a downward spiral.The thing is (and this is crucial)is that the lower costs in the NL might just mean that Stoke can put out a side capable of challenging for the league and (and I very much appreciate your honesty) you will be there every week - and you won't be alone. Those who choose to stay away will be doing little else other than cutting their noses off to spite their faces, and it will be extremely hard to do so if the struggling team you have supported through many years suddenly become successful. To my mind, its as simple as that: a successful team will make Stoke a success in the NL.

In my view, Stoke is the best shaped track in Britain, but sometimes the preparation hasn't matched that. The quality of the racing in the NL is no different to that of the higher leagues, so get that right and, in combination with a winning team, things will pick up.

I think you are right, too, about passions calming a bit by next March. We'll see how many still refuse to go if the NL gets up to about 10 teams or so (three bidders at Mildenhall, possible rescue at Weymouth)and they look like being in with a shout.

sterichie26 · November 29, 2010

apparently Arlo Bugeja at number 1 and young Indian rider Shaheesh Nawabs to be unveiled later on this week.

vog · November 29, 2010

apparently Arlo Bugeja at number 1 and young Indian rider Shaheesh Nawabs to be unveiled later on this week.

Please, I'm begging you, stop this. I will give you 3 perfectly valid reasons why this is nonsense.

1) Indian riders are not permitted in the NL.

2) Arlo Bugeja would come in on a 6 point average, nowhere near enough to be a number 1.

3) Your continual spouting of nonsense on every team thread is making me want to tear my eyes out and stick them to the wall so I don't have to read who is signing for who.

Please, stop with the spamming.

Please.

Diesel · November 29, 2010

What if the Indian rider is already employed by a Curry house in Longton? He could race on his delivery moped.

CrystalCastles · November 29, 2010

What if the Indian rider is already employed by a Curry house in Longton? He could race on his delivery moped.

He could also deliver us fans a curry

vog · November 29, 2010

What if the Indian rider is already employed by a Curry house in Longton? He could race on his delivery moped.

He would still be a better option than Rob Grant Jr!

Swift Saint · November 29, 2010

Arlo Bugeja has no British patriality and would require the same complex work permit that others now need.

But I am not sure if any riders without a British passport can race in any event.

Stoke will not start building a team ahead of nest week's meeting at Rugby

Malcolm Vasey

Crooner · December 1, 2010

Well what a juvenile comment your second one is!!! (you paying for my up keep through your taxes) If you only knew the half of it! Yes i am retired. I started work in 1963 never had a day off until starting my own company in 1976 which was sold earlier this year for a tidy sum. I doubt whether if you worked until you are 100 you will pay anywhere near the taxes that i have had to pay in my working life, in fact id bet that in the last 10 years iv'e payed more in taxes than you will earn in the next 50 years. So young man, it's me and me only that is paying for my up keep, one i have no doubt you couldn't afford anyway.

Well I think you were making some interesting points, although that highlighted comment has taken the shine off.

I'm glad you've sold you're company for a tidy sum. But try to remember back just a few short posts ago, when you, yourself said 'there's a recession on'

Hardly the best way to endear yourself, by telling everyone how well you're doing currently, and how much more tax you pay, while most folk struggle to make a living (and before you think that comment in an envious one, it isn't. I just don't feel the need to get involved in that sort of a discussion)

Defend yourself by all means, but that's a very arrogant response, and a little over the top.

I've seen plenty of comments on various threads on this topic along the lines of ' there's just not the support out there' and others comments like it.

I appreciate that times are tough for lots of companies at the moment, but that's no excuse for the lacklustre approach to promoting that has been norm at Stoke Speedway under the Tattum era. A promoter needs to promote (to sell) and whilst that seems obvious, there has been a distinct lack of proactive marketing done around Stoke. Too many times people in Stoke say ' i didn't know it was still there' and words to that effect.

Many Stoke supporters have made excellent suggestions for finding new support that just don't turn to action. Its the promotions job to be forward thinking and go out and put themselves in front of a new fan base (not the fans). The clue is in the name 'Promotion'

Had the supporters seen some of these activities given a go, then there would be much more understanding for the need to drop down. But there hasn't been and this reactive ' we'll do what we've always done. A report in the local rag, and a short clip on the radio and that'll do us' doesn't wash.

Whilst lots of people have said they won't go,I think this is an emotional response. No-one wants to see stoke die, but I think many will need convincing that this promotion have turned over a new leaf in it's attitude to promoting.

I want desperately to go into next season thinking that this has been a big wake up call for Stoke.

Crooner · December 1, 2010

Well what a juvenile comment your second one is!!! (you paying for my up keep through your taxes) If you only knew the half of it! Yes i am retired. I started work in 1963 never had a day off until starting my own company in 1976 which was sold earlier this year for a tidy sum. I doubt whether if you worked until you are 100 you will pay anywhere near the taxes that i have had to pay in my working life, in fact id bet that in the last 10 years iv'e payed more in taxes than you will earn in the next 50 years. So young man, it's me and me only that is paying for my up keep, one i have no doubt you couldn't afford anyway.

.