heathen79 6 Posted February 3, 2011 SS says Dudley Promotion voted against Mildenhall returning and it was 4:3 against. How could you do so when you know what it's like not to have a track and it would have been another team to race against home and away? Can't comment on the specific details and obviously when asking 'how could you', it was the job of the Heathens management to make the decision. They key point however is that the vote was against that particular proposal, not against Mildenhall in general. Everyone would be dismayed if the same thing as last year happened again, so it is vitally important that the right setup is in place to bring the Fen Tigers back properly. SS also says that a new bid is being prepared and naturally we all wish the guys all the best in putting together something viable for 2011. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
greyhoundp 990 Posted February 4, 2011 (edited) Firstly if its true that Dudleys promotion voted against Mildenhalls return, then i as a Fan am very dissapointed in them for doing it, and would hope they have the b*lls to explain WHY. Secondly NICE to see armo back in The Heathens Team, but is it a move that can win us the League, i am not convinced of that, because whilst Adam Roynon is a brilliant signing, can he remain injury free for a whole season ??, remembering guests are only allowed for an absent No1, can we cover adequately should Adam get injured again ?, and if my calculations are correct, then this means Jake Anderson will not be back in the Heathens Team in 2011 as we dont have enough points left. Edited February 4, 2011 by greyhoundp Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted February 4, 2011 Armstrong on an 8.36 average? That's a very big gamble, he is a good rider, however when did he attain that figure? I'm pretty sure he was averaging around 6 a meeting last season. Loyalty can cost successful teams in speedway and the increase that Adam will have in average looks like it will be offset by a drop in Jon's. Also if the Heathens have voted against the Fen Tigers return to the sport it's quite shocking, just remember last winter it was the other way round... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted February 4, 2011 Armstrong on an 8.36 average? That's a very big gamble, he is a good rider, however when did he attain that figure? I'm pretty sure he was averaging around 6 a meeting last season. Loyalty can cost successful teams in speedway and the increase that Adam will have in average looks like it will be offset by a drop in Jon's. I agree, it's a risk. They are likely to swap places as soon as the first averages come out. I'm hoping that between them they average out the same at around 16-16½ between them. If not we're screwed. I'd have preferred Brundle, Taylor, Birko as number one. But that's my last word on it. Armo is in and he'll get my support the same as the other lads. Also if the Heathens have voted against the Fen Tigers return to the sport it's quite shocking, just remember last winter it was the other way round... I prefer to hold-fire on this until we know the details, assuming it ever comes out. But at face value it's disappointing to think we (the club) could have put another at risk with our vote. But let's not forget it would have been one of four votes, so I hope the Heathens alone won't face a backlash from fans of other clubs. ----------------------------------------- Right, new wish list based on the latest signing. Perry likely and Ritchings offered a place. Assuming they sign we have a little under 9½ to play with. I'm going to make some wild assumptions. There's been not so much as a whisper about Franklin or Sarjeant returning. So for the purpose of this post I'll count them out of the running. We can't fit Taylor, Evans, Dyer or Anderson from last season's team back in, so they're out. McKinna would fit but leave us weak at reserve, so I'll discount him too. So two new riders for the Heathens with no more than 9½ points. The whole make up of our team is very much weaker for '11 than for '10 because we're having to lose a massive 8½ points to get back under the new limit, the most of any team from last season. So our top end is significantly weaker as Perry would have gone from speedway new boy on a 3 at reserve to third heat leader. Morris would have gone from reserve into the main body of the team, where he struggled last season, perhaps even being 4th in our averages for '11. And at the bottom end we're unlikely to be lucky enough to unearth another rider that can go from 3 to 6½ so we're probably weaker there. With all of this in mind I'd like to see the 9½ split evenly to give us a stronger reserve and a decent rider to complete the top 5. So all things considered I would go for Bates (4.47) and Pickard (4.35). This leaves a chunk to sign a number 7 on significantly more than 3 if Ritchings doesn't sign. Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - 6.40 Morris - 5.06 Bates - 4.36 Pickard - 4.24 Ritchings or up to 3.88 NOTE: I've knocked 2.5% off the end '10 averages of Perry, Bates and Pickard but I'm sure it's right. According to the BSPA website Morris ended on 5.25 and signed for this season on the 5.06 I've quoted above. That's 3.75%. Can anyone confirm because I might to another complete re-think? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jayne 312 Posted February 4, 2011 ----------------------------------------- Right, new wish list based on the latest signing. Perry likely and Ritchings offered a place. Assuming they sign we have a little under 9½ to play with. I'm going to make some wild assumptions. There's been not so much as a whisper about Franklin or Sarjeant returning. So for the purpose of this post I'll count them out of the running. We can't fit Taylor, Evans, Dyer or Anderson from last season's team back in, so they're out. McKinna would fit but leave us weak at reserve, so I'll discount him too. So two new riders for the Heathens with no more than 9½ points. The whole make up of our team is very much weaker for '11 than for '10 because we're having to lose a massive 8½ points to get back under the new limit, the most of any team from last season. So our top end is significantly weaker as Perry would have gone from speedway new boy on a 3 at reserve to third heat leader. Morris would have gone from reserve into the main body of the team, where he struggled last season, perhaps even being 4th in our averages for '11. And at the bottom end we're unlikely to be lucky enough to unearth another rider that can go from 3 to 6½ so we're probably weaker there. With all of this in mind I'd like to see the 9½ split evenly to give us a stronger reserve and a decent rider to complete the top 5. So all things considered I would go for Bates (4.47) and Pickard (4.35). This leaves a chunk to sign a number 7 on significantly more than 3 if Ritchings doesn't sign. Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - 6.40 Morris - 5.06 Bates - 4.58 Pickard - 4.24 Ritchings or up to 3.66 NOTE: I've knocked 2.5% off the end '10 averages of Perry, Bates and Pickard but I'm sure it's right. According to the BSPA website Morris ended on 5.25 and signed for this season on the 5.06 I've quoted above. That's 3.75%. Can anyone confirm because I might to another complete re-think? Not sure why you've knocked 2.5% off those averages but it is wrong. If you are thinking of the 2.5% British reduction then it only applies to Roynon's PL average. The averages on the BSPA website are the October green sheets not the final ones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted February 4, 2011 NOTE: I've knocked 2.5% off the end '10 averages of Perry, Bates and Pickard but I'm sure it's right. According to the BSPA website Morris ended on 5.25 and signed for this season on the 5.06 I've quoted above. That's 3.75%. Can anyone confirm because I might to another complete re-think? There is no reduction on NL riders average because the league is deemed to be British only (or so few non-Brits its not an issue) so nobody gains/loses out anyway. Yet weirdly, a rider who drops from the PL get the reduction, only in speedway Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted February 4, 2011 I agree, it's a risk. They are likely to swap places as soon as the first averages come out. I'm hoping that between them they average out the same at around 16-16½ between them. If not we're screwed. I'd have preferred Brundle, Taylor, Birko as number one. But that's my last word on it. Armo is in and he'll get my support the same as the other lads. Very sensible approach, may be a debatable signing, however Jon will be putting his bod on the line for the Heathens so it is right to support him. I know I do the same for any rider who pulls on a Rye House racejacket. I prefer to hold-fire on this until we know the details, assuming it ever comes out. But at face value it's disappointing to think we (the club) could have put another at risk with our vote. But let's not forget it would have been one of four votes, so I hope the Heathens alone won't face a backlash from fans of other clubs. Very true, not a dig at Dudley on my part, just a case of them being one of the teams who have supposedly voted against the Fen Tigers inclusion. It is a shame any club would have voted against the Tigers coming back to the sport and if Rye are one of those clubs who have i'd be very disappointed by that. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted February 4, 2011 Not sure why you've knocked 2.5% off those averages but it is wrong. If you are thinking of the 2.5% British reduction then it only applies to Roynon's PL average. The averages on the BSPA website are the October green sheets not the final ones. I assumed that the league that is supposedly developing the British riders might afford them the same opportunities as riders in higher leagues. So Harris, Rico and Scotty (the top Brits) all get an average reduction to help them in the EL but the British lads don't get one when they're starting out in the NL. And likewise Roynon and Lambert get a reduction presumably Simmons and Brundle don't. It all seems rather strange to me. Is there a source for us to view final averages? The EL and PL sections of the BSPA website have a Greensheet tab but not the for NL, hence I assumed the only figures quoted were the right ones. There is no reduction on NL riders average because the league is deemed to be British only (or so few non-Brits its not an issue) so nobody gains/loses out anyway. Yet weirdly, a rider who drops from the PL get the reduction, only in speedway Exactly. The NL lads have been competing for places against foreign riders, though not such a large pool admittedly, so why don't they get a reduction too?! It really should be the same rule across the leagues let alone in the same league, where a select few NL riders have got a reduction but the majority haven't. Very true, not a dig at Dudley on my part, just a case of them being one of the teams who have supposedly voted against the Fen Tigers inclusion. It is a shame any club would have voted against the Tigers coming back to the sport and if Rye are one of those clubs who have i'd be very disappointed by that. It was fair comment. ------------------------------------------------------ So, Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - ??? Morris - 5.06 Bates - ??? Pickard - ??? Ritchings - 3.00 ??? should fit as surely their final averages weren't that different to what's on the BSPA website. Perry could put another point on if his gating improves a little. Pickard should get 5.something and Bates should bang his average up to 6.something if he gets his head down and puts everything into it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rami 14 Posted February 4, 2011 Armstrong on an 8.36 average? That's a very big gamble, he is a good rider, however when did he attain that figure? I'm pretty sure he was averaging around 6 a meeting last season. Loyalty can cost successful teams in speedway and the increase that Adam will have in average looks like it will be offset by a drop in Jon's. I agree, it's a risk. They are likely to swap places as soon as the first averages come out. I'm hoping that between them they average out the same at around 16-16½ between them. If not we're screwed. I'd have preferred Brundle, Taylor, Birko as number one. But that's my last word on it. Armo is in and he'll get my support the same as the other lads. I dont agree, Ben that average was acheived last season despite the fact Jon had been out for a considerable time with a terrible leg injury, when he first came back you could see he was rusty and the scores reflected that, however once he got back into the swing of things he was a different rider, take a look at his scores in the 5 meetings before he picked up his arm injury - 15+1, 14+1 (paid Max), 13+2 (paid max), 10+1, 11+1 . As long as there are no ill effects from the arm injury i would be suprised if there wasnt an improvement on the starting average of 8.36. 21st CH if we had taken on Brundle or Birko as number 1 we would have had even less points to play with for the remaining riders and you are already worried about us being weak at the bottom. I think Nigel & Will have got it spot on so far every rider signed up is more than capable of upping there average and if that happens we will be there or thereabouts come the end of the season - Keep the faith and Roll on April Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torpointfanatic22 268 Posted February 4, 2011 I assumed that the league that is supposedly developing the British riders might afford them the same opportunities as riders in higher leagues. So Harris, Rico and Scotty (the top Brits) all get an average reduction to help them in the EL but the British lads don't get one when they're starting out in the NL. And likewise Roynon and Lambert get a reduction presumably Simmons and Brundle don't. It all seems rather strange to me. Is there a source for us to view final averages? The EL and PL sections of the BSPA website have a Greensheet tab but not the for NL, hence I assumed the only figures quoted were the right ones. Exactly. The NL lads have been competing for places against foreign riders, though not such a large pool admittedly, so why don't they get a reduction too?! It really should be the same rule across the leagues let alone in the same league, where a select few NL riders have got a reduction but the majority haven't. It was fair comment. ------------------------------------------------------ So, Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - ??? Morris - 5.06 Bates - ??? Pickard - ??? Ritchings - 3.00 ??? should fit as surely their final averages weren't that different to what's on the BSPA website. Perry could put another point on if his gating improves a little. Pickard should get 5.something and Bates should bang his average up to 6.something if he gets his head down and puts everything into it. Bates 4.47, Pickard 4.35, Perry 6.56. Hope both our former Devils get snapped up soon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bruno 1,793 Posted February 4, 2011 must admit im happy with armo coming back,he gives us much more than points.and remember just before his injury he was outscoring smarty.a good decision by will and nigel.hope they explain the vote against mildenhall on the 25th Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dipster 0 Posted February 4, 2011 Jon Armstrongs Website Updated Jon Armstrongs Website Updated Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
refereerick 253 Posted February 4, 2011 The Mighty Midget, Legend end off If anyone had seen his performance guesting for Mildenhall last season, they would know his worth. The effort he put in was there for all to see and he is the one rider I would pick to watch race above ANY other rider i've ever watched. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heathen79 6 Posted February 4, 2011 Fully behind the move to bring back Armo and the reaction from fans online has been pretty awesome - a very popular choice. He'c capable of holding his average, if not improving it at this stage of his career, and those scores posted above clearly reflect his points scoring potential. However, his presence with the youngsters like Perry, Morris & Franklin is worth much more. We will be weaker at reserve for sure, but we have to remember that the team is much weaker than the end of 2010 because our averages had increased so much. And all teams are a little weaker anyway to get under the points limit. Title winning team? Yes, we'll be up there again! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
21st century heathen 220 Posted February 7, 2011 21st CH if we had taken on Brundle or Birko as number 1 we would have had even less points to play with for the remaining riders and you are already worried about us being weak at the bottom. That's true but we would have been very strong at the top end, much stronger than last season. When it comes right down to it in heats 13 and 15 that could be vital. How many times did Hamill and Hancock do the business for us, for example? My concern is that the way the team is shaping up we will be weaker in all areas of the team. I know everyone starts equal, points limit wise, and that we've had to lose the most , as I stated earlier. It's just a personal preference as to how I would have built the team. I feel that the decision to bring Armstrong back in is one that Nigel has made through weight of opinion, which he as good as admits in his comments, rather than what was actually considered to be the best way to build the team. I would be interested to know what the other options being considered were. Bates 4.47, Pickard 4.35, Perry 6.56. Hope both our former Devils get snapped up soon. Cheers. But aren't those the averages on the BSPA website which Jayne says are not final averages and therefore irrelevant for team building? -------------------------------------- I can see us now ended up something like this. Armstrong - 8.36 Roynon - 7.70 Perry - circa 6½ Franklin - circa 5½ Morris - 5.25 A.N.Other - circa 3½ Ritchings - 3.00 I think we're going to need to pull a rabbit out of the hat for that last place, but of course we've not seen all the other teams yet. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
