Wild Cards,time To Stop?

[ladyluck 1]

The answer to that is a matter of opinion ... not fact. Some will say yes, others will say no. So, it doesn't make it right or wrong.

 

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

[jellyman 2]

I think this is one of those cases where times have changed.

 

It used to be the case that a wildcard could enter a GP and actually have a chance. However, due to the investment needed to be competitive in the GPs and the fact that the standards have got higher I don't think that this is the case any longer.

 

Maybe it's time to ditch the whole idea of wild cards and have an extra regular rider.

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

 

YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are.

 

Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer.

 

Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

[ladyluck 1]

Does anyone remember the first couple of years in the GPs? My memory is a bit vague, but wasn't it something like a permanent eighteen riders, with the bottom two at a GP being replaced for the next GP and so on?

I'm not against the concept of "wild cards" per se. Three "wild cards" have won GPs, although the most recent example was Hans Andersen in 2006, but with the expansion of the series as much as its professional evolution, too many are simply not competitive. The simple fact, whether people like it or not, is that in recent seasons the "wild cards" most likely to be able to compete have been Poles.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

 

Is it? Tell me, Mr Rising, did you raise your voice against the numerous "iffy" nominations handed out to Nicholls and Harris, when the old "two Brits" is sacrosanct reigned supreme at BSI?

By the way, I notice you haven't favoured us with your opinion. Waiting for Paul Bellamy to give you it?

Edited May 4, 2011 by ladyluck

[The Know 221]

Okay, give me your opinion, or is this another case where you "honestly don't know" your own opinion? I can give you the facts and figures for the last five or so years that prove conclusively that Polish "wild cards" have out-performed British "wild cards" during that time period. You may recall that Jagus, Kasprzak, Hampel and Kolodziej have all made finals as "wild cards" during that time span, while the "plucky Brit" has averaged something like four.

think i am turning anti polish

[The Know 221]

YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are.

 

Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer.

 

Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

not sure about him being the best, more to do with being polish i feel. good rider but will crack under pressure when results dont come.

[ladyluck 1]

think i am turning anti polish

 

Oh come on, the Ferrari deserves the occasional Turtle Wax treat, doesn't it?

[The Know 221]

Oh come on, the Ferrari deserves the occasional Turtle Wax treat, doesn't it?

ya got me there no you have to use harly wax much better.

[spook 28]

YOU are picking unnecessary argument again. I do know my own opinion, thanks, but that is all it is and does not make it a fact. No more or less than your opinion. That's all they are.

 

Is AV a better system than first past the post for electing a UK government? No matter what the result at the polls tomorrow it will not provide a definitive, factual answer.

 

Whether or not Polish wild cards have out-performed British ones is totally irrelevant. No one pushed harder from the outside than did I to make the case for Kolodziej to get a seeded place this year. His nationality was not an issue. He was at the time the best rider not already in the 2011 SGP line-up and no matter that there were already three Polish riders in the 15 his claim was judged solely on merit.

 

But the wild card scenario is not the same as a permanent place and is, rightly or wrongly (depending on one's OPINION) judged differently.

 

 

imho its not disimilar to the world championship format discussion ..... what we would like to be the case is not always what is practical, good, or likely to happen

 

ideally on paper I would like to see the top 16 riders.... if riders from a particular nation dont make it then they know where the bar is that they have to work towards........................ but commercial interests dont always fit in with this and it is easy to see in the case of IMG and the SGP, that it doesnt in some cases

 

we have had the two strongest lineups ever with a policy of quota .....so they must be doing a lot of things right

[PHILIPRISING 7,298]

Does anyone remember the first couple of years in the GPs? My memory is a bit vague, but wasn't it something like a permanent eighteen riders, with the bottom two at a GP being replaced for the next GP and so on?

I'm not against the concept of "wild cards" per se. Three "wild cards" have won GPs, although the most recent example was Hans Andersen in 2006, but with the expansion of the series as much as its professional evolution, too many are simply not competitive. The simple fact, whether people like it or not, is that in recent seasons the "wild cards" most likely to be able to compete have been Poles.

 

 

 

Is it? Tell me, Mr Rising, did you raise your voice against the numerous "iffy" nominations handed out to Nicholls and Harris, when the old "two Brits" is sacrosanct reigned supreme at BSI?

By the way, I notice you haven't favoured us with your opinion. Waiting for Paul Bellamy to give you it?

,

 

ABSOLUTELY, if that's what you want to believe and it makes you feel better. As David Cameron might say, calm down dear, calm down.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,957]

The answer to that is a matter of opinion ... not fact. Some will say yes, others will say no. So, it doesn't make it right or wrong.

 

Think it's fair enough to have a local wildcard where the host nation has one or no regular GP riders, but otherwise it should go to the next available standby rider.

[iris123 20,987]

Think it's fair enough to have a local wildcard where the host nation has one or no regular GP riders, but otherwise it should go to the next available standby rider.

Agree + disagree.The first part is fine....but the standyby riders are generally no big deal.If there is a real inform rider like Darcy Ward is,then i think they should get a go.And if they hold their own amongst the regular GP riders then i think they should get another....It also goes back to the statement that spook ideally wants the best 16 riders....but how are you going to get that?Holding qualis the year before won't get you the best 16 riders of that year let alone the year after.One or two will lose form and someone else will improve...If we are going to have the best in form rider getting the WC(apart from those countries where financially a local is needed),then that to me is the best solution.

[Humphrey Appleby 13,957]

It also goes back to the statement that spook ideally wants the best 16 riders....but how are you going to get that?

 

Who the best 16 riders are, is another one of those things that's a matter of opinion. I also think having qualifiers is necessary to ensure variety, and that the whole thing doesn't become stale as it did a couple of seasons ago.

 

Whether a distinct qualifying competition is the best way of doing it I don't know, but if those that just missed out on the SGP knew they could still get a wildcard opportunity, it might add more interest to the whole thing.

Edited May 4, 2011 by Humphrey Appleby

[spook 28]

I think the qualifiers are necessary as well for variety although I dont think they usually provide us with the best 16

 

like Iris says... I think the top 16 is and always will be an impossible dream but there is the opportunity with the WC on the night to make things a bit more spicy

 

Iris123 said:

 

If we are going to have the best in form rider getting the WC(apart from those countries where financially a local is needed),then that to me is the best solution.

 

this seems the most sensible to me although I do think that a maximum quota amount should also be a factor

[ladyluck 1]

I've no problem with Darcy Ward getting a "wild card" gig, but other riders have also enjoyed fine starts to the season, such as Grigory Laguta, Matej Zagar and Adrian Miedzinski. To my mind you either have one policy or the other. You either go local, or you go with the one of the best available.