nightrider 0 Posted January 16, 2012 mike bowden offering shares in the club at £10 each 4,900 available whilst he keeps a majority 5,100 dont know the legal ramifications of this but surely some transparency should be made available to potential shareholders personally wouldnt touch anything to do with bowden his reputation in the city as a business man leaves alot to be desired but thought i would post it, may give a few people a laugh! Where did Bowden pluck these figures from ???? The company is worth nothing at all like this and anyone buying shares would simply be putting money in Mike's pocket. If you look on 'Company Check' - a website free for all to view a company's financial returns : When putting in his 2010 valuations he has the company net worth at -£31.890 ( yes that was minus) and assets of little over £4,000. I can not for the life of me work out what anyone buying shares would actually 'own.' May be some one else can explain what these shares would be in? He only has a lease for the track until 2013 or 2015 , not sure which, but I would strongly assume he may well give up his licence then and close the doors. He has done nothing with the Ernesettle project bandied about a couple of years back. I hate to be cynical but if he closes shop when his lease runs out then all the shareholders will have is shares in nothing. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonB 55 Posted January 16, 2012 mike bowden offering shares in the club at £10 each 4,900 available whilst he keeps a majority 5,100 dont know the legal ramifications of this but surely some transparency should be made available to potential shareholders personally wouldnt touch anything to do with bowden his reputation in the city as a business man leaves alot to be desired but thought i would post it, may give a few people a laugh! Legally I think the only major requirement would be to have an Annual General Meeting with all shareholders invited to seek approval for the annual accounts (and they would be relatively detailed). How Mr Bowden actually manages the relationship with the shareholders would be a matter for him to decide. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted January 16, 2012 Where did Bowden pluck these figures from ???? The company is worth nothing at all like this and anyone buying shares would simply be putting money in Mike's pocket. If you look on 'Company Check' - a website free for all to view a company's financial returns : When putting in his 2010 valuations he has the company net worth at -£31.890 ( yes that was minus) and assets of little over £4,000. I can not for the life of me work out what anyone buying shares would actually 'own.' May be some one else can explain what these shares would be in? He only has a lease for the track until 2013 or 2015 , not sure which, but I would strongly assume he may well give up his licence then and close the doors. He has done nothing with the Ernesettle project bandied about a couple of years back. I hate to be cynical but if he closes shop when his lease runs out then all the shareholders will have is shares in nothing. While the asset valuation is about right, I'd say the £100k company valuation is more accurate that -£31k (although I'd accept the first figure appears to have been plucked out of thin air). How anyone can value an NL track (because it was that at the time) getting gates over the 1,000 mark every week as having a minus value is beyond me. I'm no expert, but surely the value of a company is reflected as much by its profitability as its assets ? Profitable or not, I'll be amazed if anyone buys any shares. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonB 55 Posted January 16, 2012 Where did Bowden pluck these figures from ???? The company is worth nothing at all like this and anyone buying shares would simply be putting money in Mike's pocket. If you look on 'Company Check' - a website free for all to view a company's financial returns : When putting in his 2010 valuations he has the company net worth at -£31.890 ( yes that was minus) and assets of little over £4,000. I can not for the life of me work out what anyone buying shares would actually 'own.' May be some one else can explain what these shares would be in? He only has a lease for the track until 2013 or 2015 , not sure which, but I would strongly assume he may well give up his licence then and close the doors. He has done nothing with the Ernesettle project bandied about a couple of years back. I hate to be cynical but if he closes shop when his lease runs out then all the shareholders will have is shares in nothing. Your cynical view point is correct, if that is indeed what transpires! In terms of using the submitted accounts information to come up with a valuation personally I would not recommend it for smaller companies. As an example the owner may decide to pay themselves a salary, large expenses etc. to reduce the profitability (or create a loss) and for small companies that information does not have to be made public. I'm no expert, but surely the value of a company is reflected as much by its profitability as its assets ? You are right mate in that most business transactions are based on a valuation linked to the existing or expected profitability. Currently in my business sector we are looking at valuations that are around 8 times annual profit. So of £100k is the valuation profitability of about £12.5k per annum would be expected. Although of course if the business only has a short term lease then the profit multiplier would be significantly lower. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted January 16, 2012 Your cynical view point is correct, if that is indeed what transpires! In terms of using the submitted accounts information to come up with a valuation personally I would not recommend it for smaller companies. As an example the owner may decide to pay themselves a salary, large expenses etc. to reduce the profitability (or create a loss) and for small companies that information does not have to be made public. You are right mate in that most business transactions are based on a valuation linked to the existing or expected profitability. Currently in my business sector we are looking at valuations that are around 8 times annual profit. So of £100k is the valuation profitability of about £12.5k per annum would be expected. Although of course if the business only has a short term lease then the profit multiplier would be significantly lower. From what I have heard, profits are a lot, lot higher than that (albeit based upon NL speedway). As to your first point, I have had dealings with directors of speedway companies paying themselves large salaries Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 0 Posted January 16, 2012 Why if he's making so much money is he selling half the club then? :/ makes no sense to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonB 55 Posted January 16, 2012 From what I have heard, profits are a lot, lot higher than that (albeit based upon NL speedway). As to your first point, I have had dealings with directors of speedway companies paying themselves large salaries With me it was always the other way around lol thank god for the day job! Why if he's making so much money is he selling half the club then? :/ makes no sense to me. Cynically - its not going to make much money in the future and needs to take some money out while he has the chance? Optimistically - wants to involve fans in decision making, making them feel really part of the club and increase loyal support? No idea really (still never stopped me posting before) was there not a press release explaining the reasoning? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drac 83 Posted January 16, 2012 Bowden strikes again it's like an episode of on the buses Bowden being Blakey Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SimonB 55 Posted January 16, 2012 Bowden strikes again it's like an episode of on the buses Bowden being Blakey Who is Olive then? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Drac 83 Posted January 16, 2012 Who is Olive then? MikeyT Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightrider 0 Posted January 16, 2012 So..... with the limited shelf life of the SBA, and no further mention of the Ernesettle project; what do you really think are the aims of this 'sell off'? As far as I know Mr Bowden has never involved the fans in any decision making before. He even closed down the supporters club for goodness sake! It sounds awful but I feel he may be taking what he can, while he can, and leaving the other 'shareholders' to clear up once the clubs lease runs out in 2013/15? What is there at the SBA to have a share in - a delapidated old bus and stands that were condemned before Bowden even took them on. Regarding the stands - how dies he get away with the fact two people have fallen through them due to rotting boards? They are in a dreadful condition and those who choose to sit on them take their life in their hands each week. Is there a disclaimer regarding them lol. Do the HSE visit tracks and check out the facilities? as this is now track that I would be very suspect about. Shame, as the fans are a great bunch. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
torpointfanatic22 268 Posted January 16, 2012 MikeyT That's harsh, I see myself as more of a Bluto Call me a cynic but I try to look at things realistically. This proposed move is nothing to do with letting the fans in to have more say in the way the club is run. You only have to look at the Plymouth Speedway Supporters Club that was closed down by Mr Bowden as he wasn't happy with it (probably because he wasn't in control of it). He re-opened it as the man in charge and promptly closed it again within a few weeks! My best guess is that Mr Bowden has probably put himself down to have a rather large salary which is why the company shows as having a negative net worth. After all the fewer people that know what he is bringing in the better from his point of view. There are a couple of other things here Cornwall are looking to get up and running in the next year or two and it wouldn't surprise me if Mr Bowden were behind that. Freeing up some funds in Plymouth would help. On top of this there is the very realistic chance that Plymouth will lose support if and when Cornwall gets up and running so reducing the risk by selling shares reduces the risk for him should the club start to struggle. I am also aware of a couple of other issues which could see Mr Bowden getting a kick in his pocket so reducing what he actually has means less to pay out! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Starman2006 2,356 Posted January 16, 2012 Due to changes in my private life,its looking very likely that I will be a full time Devils supporter in 2012. You will NEVER be able to remove my love of Poole Pirates though. I will be a regular on the 3rd-4th turns with the love of my life.Is she worth it? You bet she is. BOB, WHATS GOING ON??? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Skid 426 Posted January 16, 2012 Makes Del Boy and Rodney, look like Alan Sugar and Peter Jones. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Halifaxtiger 5,318 Posted January 16, 2012 (edited) Why if he's making so much money is he selling half the club then? :/ makes no sense to me. That's a question that has been interrupting my work all day. As I have said, I got told that Bowden has made a near 7 figure sum since opening Plymouth in 2006. The thing is, that's entirely believable on the gates I have seen at SBA. I have to say it also makes no sense that an NL club attracting around 1,500- 2,000 spectators every week is worth - £31k, and I suspect that the reason for the sale is probably made on the same basis and with the same motivation in mind as that ludicrous valuation. Edited January 16, 2012 by Halifaxtiger Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
