Maitland Speedway Anniversary

[Parsloes 1928 nearly 495]

I did provide a link to a newpaper article from the States from around 1912 or so(might have been earlier or a bit later,not got time to search)which described track racing as 'speedway racing'.This coming from their use of the term 'speedway' for their tracks.Think it might have been from Indianapolis.But there were cars and also bikes at the meeting.I would think it just came to be used as a term in the States and the terms were copied in Australia at first then Britain when the sport arrived,because in 1928 it was Crystal Palace Speedway.I tend to go with the idea that the sport was developed in the States and then furthered in Australia.Some of the bike companies were even producing racing bikes without brakes in the States and we know they were broadsiding there well before 1923.And they weren't at Maitland i think at first and did they have brakes at Maitland?(i can't remember if it is known...)

 

Well yes - a 'Speedway' is indeed the name for a motor racetrack in the States. And here too sometimes (e.g Rockingham Speedway near Corby). Somewhere and somehow though somebody thought that a particular activity taking part on a Speedway, namely the form of dirt track motorcycling without brakes, should be called in itself, 'Speedway'.

Personally I think it was a bit daft as it's led to a certain amount of confusion (certainly in some places, like the USA) ever since...

Perhaps we should've gone with the branding used initially at good old Plough Lane: dirt track racing as Dracing!!

[speedyguy 20]

Re: MAITLAND SPEEDWAY ANNIVERSARY

 

 

 

 

-This is an observation on how we can sometimes get offside on recording history and this particulary relates to Maitland, .

 

Anyone involved in biographies and family histories would be aware that the

memories of family members are often selective or tinted by the passage of time.

If we are documenting these memoirs, for future generations, the trick is to

merge, or factor in, those recollections with the historical facts that we can

access to through the wonders of information technology We should try and nuture contacts with the few remaining people who have contacts with the pre war years...

 

The problem, as I see it is in the way we compose internet postings, often a

missing or ill chosen word,sparks off reactions from both sides. Of this I am as

guilty as the next person.

 

Face to face interviews are still the most productive because we establish a

relationship at the outset. If we look at the style of our respected writers,

Basil Storey,John Chaplin, Eric Linden, John Hyam, Cyril May etc, they all

based their stories on personal contact and got to know their subjects. Often

they travelled many miles to produce that copy. I think that John C travelled

to Australia to see Vic Duggan and Graham Warren. Another writer who has made

the effort to get out and meet pioneers is Steve Magro, well respected by the

older riders. This takes time and money.

 

I have tried to follow that approach over the last five years, words of wisdom

came from Reg Fearman, "Get out and see them before it is too late!" This

personal approach has reaped untold benefits. Over recent years I have shared

memories with visits to speedway families. I would like to think that I have

gained the confidence of those I have visited. Certainly doors have opened for

me that were firmly closed in the past.

 

Sadly there are very few identities still around with connections to the pre war

days,we should value and respect the remaining contacts we have. Ian Hoskins is

one who comes to mind, I wonder how many present day writers have attempted to

gain a face to face with Ian. From what we read he is wary of new historians,

although I have been around speedway for a long time, I would be placed in that

category when it comes to speedway history. A talk with Ian would be on my

bucket list, maybe we would agree to differ, but at least it would be eye to

eye.

 

In my home city of Brisbane we have a small network of historians who meet from

time to time, sharing info and material this has proved beneficial. Venues are

always an issue but I have a concept in mind to expand on in the near future.

 

thanks for reading this

 

 

Tony

 

This Post is a valid reflection on the problems that face historians. You cannot always believe what you read in the Press. A case in point:

When the last tram in London ran between New Cross Gate and Woolwich in the early 1950s, there was a major mistake in the report in the following edition of the 'South London Press.' In a further edition some weeks later, the mistake was corrected on the letters page.

However, over the years when articles have been written about London's last tram, the original error is quoted. Then comes the usual corrections on the letters page - which are ignored when next the original article is quoted.

That can happen in regard to what is now being accepted as gospel in regard to newspaper coverage of the "start of speedway" in 1923. Are we 100 per cent sure they are accurate accounts or are researchers assuming they are?

It's what's known in the newspaper trade as the perpetuating error. West Maitland 1923 - did Johnnie Hoskins start speedway. Or did he NOT start speedway racing? How can we be 100 per cent sure either way?

Edited March 16, 2012 by speedyguy

[olddon 7]

Elsewhere on another discussion group I have read a rather odd Post. It says that Johnnie Hoskins wrote some programmes notes in which he denied that he started speedway in the UK in 1928.

I wonder why this matter was brought into the public domain because I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Johnnie started British speedway in 1928?

As they say "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[kennylane 3]

Elsewhere on another discussion group I have read a rather odd Post. It says that Johnnie Hoskins wrote some programmes notes in which he denied that he started speedway in the UK in 1928.

I wonder why this matter was brought into the public domain because I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Johnnie started British speedway in 1928?

As they say "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

That comment you refer to is what our Australian friend BFD so rightly calls a Red Herring by that lot.

[BigFatDave 258]

That comment you refer to is what our Australian friend BFD so rightly calls a Red Herring by that lot.

One of several reasons why I've given up even attempting to debate our pet amateur historian, kennylane, along with his constant sarcasm, self-aggrandisement and snide remarks: in the words of Thomas Paine "To argue with a person who has renounced the use of Reason is like administering Medicine to the Dead."

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Hoskins did not travel to Newcastle from Maitland. He went to Sydney first and then on to Newcastle, where he took up the position as secretary for an already well-established speedway. The reference to a World Championship is interesting as I have never come across that before. Perhaps you can expand on that kennylane. Do you have the contemporary references to it as they would be very interesting to see?

 

Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT stage a "world championship" at Newcastle during the period of his employment there. That is yet another of the "Hoskins' Myths" which have been around for decades.

 

Peter Oakes also drags up yet another Hoskins' Myth when he writes that the first time motor cycles raced on a programme on the Maitland Show Ground was at the time of the annual Show. The Maitland Show was in March, not December.

 

Hoskins certainly DID NOT run the first dirt track meeting in the world.

 

Norman has already corrected the error concerning Hoskins supposedly leaving Maitland to go to work at the Newcastle speedway.

 

Has anyone ever seen in print Johnnie Hoskins actually say he "invented speedway"?

Edited March 19, 2012 by Ross Garrigan

[kennylane 3]

Here’s the actual transcript of the item about Johnnie Hoskins in ‘Speedway Star’ Narch 17 2012 edition. JOHNNIE HOSKINS, MBE The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whether he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world. Certainly he was secretary of the Local Hunter River Agricultural and Horticultural Society when he decided to put on some motorcycle races as part of the annual show. It was hardly a headline act and for the 1923 event on December 15, the poster bills had motor-cycling racing in the smallest print of all, overshadowed by the star act, Tom Handley's Famous Buck-jumping Show. But the bikes caught the imagination of the locals and the shrewd and extrovert Hoskins, born in New Zealand in 1892, quickly latched on to the idea that it could be his key to the fortune jar. He started running meetings every week, and before long was looking to widen his horizons beyond the small New South Wales community of West Maitland. He, his wife Audrey and their son Ian, sold their few belongings, left their rented house and journeyed down to Newcastle where he audaciously ran his own World Championship. He lost his shirt in Sydney, travelled over to Perth, where his share of the first gate at Claremont was the princely sum of £750 (£35,000 in today's world). Johnnie was never short of coming forward and was a one man publicity machine and it was swiftly accepted that he had invented speedway racing. He was much in demand and set sail from Australia bound for the UK knowing he was wanted to take over the management of ten tracks.

Incidentally, while I'm considering a response to your earlier detailed forensic dissection of my post I wonder if you could define "amateur historian". As you know I worked at The British Museum for 37 years and have had 23 history books published. I'd be interested in your definition of "amateur" in this context and whether you consider yourself to be a professional historian. Your score somehow seems to not count my post. So not biased at all then..... Peter Oakes doesn't seem to be as sure as some of you on here that Maitland was the first meeting. In fact the meeting was on grass and as we know there had been other dirt track meetings before. Hoskins did not travel to Newcastle from Maitland. He went to Sydney first and then on to Newcastle, where he took up the position as secretary for an already well-established speedway. The reference to a World Championship is interesting as I have never come across that before. Perhaps you can expand on that kennylane. Do you have the contemporary references to it as they would be very interesting to see?

 

Hold on! I didn't claim that Johnnie Hoskins staged a world championship in the 1920s. That was mentioned by the respected Peter Oakes in his article in last week's 'Speedway Star.' Don't shoot the messenger!

Edited March 19, 2012 by kennylane

[raceleader 2]

Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT stage a "world championship" at Newcastle during the period of his employment there. That is yet another of the "Hoskins' Myths" which have been around for decades.

 

Peter Oakes also drags up yet another Hoskins' Myth when he writes that the first time motor cycles raced on a programme on the Maitland Show Ground was at the time of the annual Show. The Maitland Show was in March, not December.

 

Hoskins certainly DID NOT run the first dirt track meeting in the world.

 

Norman has already corrected the error concerning Hoskins supposedly leaving Maitland to go to work at the Newcastle speedway.

 

Has anyone ever seen in print Johnnie Hoskins actually say he "invented speedway"?

 

Johnnie Hoskins maybe he didn't need to make a claim that he invented speedway but was recognised most probably by others for what he did to achieve this recognition. That's how I see it after reading all the pros and cons throughout so many messages on this interesting subject.

[BigFatDave 258]

Hold on! I didn't claim that Johnnie Hoskins staged a world championship in the 1920s. That was mentioned by the respected Peter Oakes in his article in last week's 'Speedway Star.' Don't shoot the messenger!

It's just norbold rearranging the facts to suit his argument again, kennylane.

[olddon 7]

Johnnie Hoskins maybe he didn't need to make a claim that he invented speedway but was recognised most probably by others for what he did to achieve this recognition. That's how I see it after reading all the pros and cons throughout so many messages on this interesting subject.

 

That is a new view on how Johnnie Hoskins became recognised as the founding father of speedway as we know it after his 1923 venture at Maitland. The trend, as I see your comment, is that what he did in December that year was so inspirational that it was the benchmark for the sport's future? Or do I misunderstand what you are getting at?

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

[raceleader 2]

The Maitland 1923 rumpus about Johnnie Hoskins will probably continue. Can I move on? Was the first purpose-built speedway at Davies (or could be Davis) Park in Brisbane, Queensland, in the mid-20s? Or was it one of the British tracks in 1928?

[Ross Garrigan 2]

The Maitland 1923 rumpus about Johnnie Hoskins will probably continue. Can I move on? Was the first purpose-built speedway at Davies (or could be Davis) Park in Brisbane, Queensland, in the mid-20s? Or was it one of the British tracks in 1928?

 

I can rule out for you Davies Park as having been the first purpose-built speedway. I know of an earlier one in Queensland but can't say with 100% certainty that it was the earliest purpose-built speedway in Australia. It's not until the old country newspapers are perused that one knows what had actually taken place there. I have researched the early racing staged at the Toowoomba Show Ground Speedway here in Queensland. It opened before Davies Park. If you want the opening dates of both tracks, I have those.

[Ross Garrigan 2]

Elsewhere on another discussion group I have read a rather odd Post. It says that Johnnie Hoskins wrote some programmes notes in which he denied that he started speedway in the UK in 1928.

I wonder why this matter was brought into the public domain because I don't think anyone has ever claimed that Johnnie started British speedway in 1928?

As they say "yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice!"

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

 

Sorry, Jack. In an F.I.M. publication about a year or so ago one of the story contributors wrote that Johnnie DID introduce speedway into the UK. There was some comment at the time as to the extraordinary statement made in such a prestigious publication. THAT is the reason as you say " this matter was brought into the public domain."

 

You see Jack, that "other discussion group" was well entitled to bring the matter up.

[Ross Garrigan 2]

This Post is a valid reflection on the problems that face historians. You cannot always believe what you read in the Press. A case in point:

When the last tram in London ran between New Cross Gate and Woolwich in the early 1950s, there was a major mistake in the report in the following edition of the 'South London Press.' In a further edition some weeks later, the mistake was corrected on the letters page.

However, over the years when articles have been written about London's last tram, the original error is quoted. Then comes the usual corrections on the letters page - which are ignored when next the original article is quoted.

That can happen in regard to what is now being accepted as gospel in regard to newspaper coverage of the "start of speedway" in 1923. Are we 100 per cent sure they are accurate accounts or are researchers assuming they are?

It's what's known in the newspaper trade as the perpetuating error. West Maitland 1923 - did Johnnie Hoskins start speedway. Or did he NOT start speedway racing? How can we be 100 per cent sure either way?

 

John, having read this posting I ask the question, "Have you ever been to the library in your country and researched a season's speedway racing?"

 

The Maitland newspapers contained information on upcoming events on a number of days of any given week. There are also publicity items, advertisements, and then results and reports on the racing. Over the space of a season, researchers such as myself end up with copious quantities of copied images or information transcribed from the newspapers. We do not rely on a single entry in a newspaper to come to conclusions.

 

I have openly admitted previously that I for years believed that Johnnie Hoskins had "invented/started" speedway at Maitland on December 15, 1923. Why shouldn't I have believed that? Everyone said so, and everyone wrote that's what happened. Then it was suggested to me that there was more to the story. Having been a student of both history and logic, I set about to investigate the matter. I now know what really happened on the Maitland Show Ground from December 1923 (in fact what happened in the weeks leading up to that December 15, 1923 carnival is interesting) until the end of April 1924. I now know there are a large number of people out there who are mistaken in their belief as to what happened.

 

It matters little to me whether people want to believe what others such as Ian Hoskins say happened way back then, or what people write in magazines, books and on the Internet. I have proof of what I believe happened, and I ask anyone who says I'm wrong to supply proof of why I'm wrong.

 

To quote what appears on the Internet as proof of a historical fact is fraught with pitfalls. I can give a number of examples of Internet postings I have had to debunk over the years. My pick of the lot is what a chap wrote on a Scottish website. He stated that when Johnnie Hoskins left Perth in Australia in 1928 to sail to England he left his son Ian in charge of the speedway operation at the Claremont track. My question is "how many people read that on the website and accepted it as fact?"

Those such as myself who have spent years researching what Johnnie Hoskins did in Australia pre-war know that Ian would have only been about 4 years of age at the time. Just because something appears on the Internet, it doesn't mean it is fact. Sadly, some of what is still appearing in books and magazines in recent years is not correct either, whether it has to do with Johnnie Hoskins or not.

[olddon 7]

Sorry, Jack. In an F.I.M. publication about a year or so ago one of the story contributors wrote that Johnnie DID introduce speedway into the UK. There was some comment at the time as to the extraordinary statement made in such a prestigious publication. THAT is the reason as you say " this matter was brought into the public domain."

 

You see Jack, that "other discussion group" was well entitled to bring the matter up.

 

Ross: you are correct in what you say. Even I know that Johnnie Hoskins didn't introduce speedway to England in 1928. And, yes, things need to be debated and all sides heard.

JACK KEEN,

ERITH, KENT

Edited March 22, 2012 by olddon