Mildenhall V Dudley - Ko Cup Final 1st Leg - Sunday 7th October

[fentigers79 6]

Actually it's not about who's the better team etc or whether posts are fair( Halifax tiger in your opinion) or not its the underlying thread of these posts that mildenhall are cheating or that we have cheated and got away with it, surely now after two of these incidents with mildenhall being proved correct its not unreasonable to expect an apology !

[Heathen1984 139]

After two incidents proven wrong. Only one i think. Sick of hearing about all this, lets get on with the speedway, aint that why we are in here.

[fentigers79 6]

Don't reply then if you're sick of it, I didn't ask you too

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Actually it's not about who's the better team etc or whether posts are fair( Halifax tiger in your opinion) or not its the underlying thread of these posts that mildenhall are cheating or that we have cheated and got away with it, surely now after two of these incidents with mildenhall being proved correct its not unreasonable to expect an apology !

 

Have they ?

 

Bates could certainly return to the team, that's unquestionable taking into account the particular rule stated earlier on this thread.

 

However, according to Gary Patchett's latest list of team declarations, Bates is not stated in the Mildenhall line up. That means that the team on Sunday was not their declared side and was therefore illegal within the rules of the sport. To be honest (along with many others) I thought that that was where the issue was raised, not on the fact that he could not ride at all even if re-declared (which was quite clearly rubbish).

 

For what its worth, I don't think Mildenhall have cheated, they have just been sloppy.

 

Finally, while BSPA rulings might be decisive knowing how utterly corrupt they can be it would not surprise me in the slightest that they have ruled that Mildenhall are right in the full knowledge that they are not.

[Heathen1984 139]

Haha talk sense then and lets all

Move on.

[MrMungo 708]

 

However, according to Gary Patchett's latest list of team declarations, Bates is not stated in the Mildenhall line up. That means that the team on Sunday was not their declared side and was therefore illegal within the rules of the sport. To be honest (along with many others) I thought that that was where the issue was raised, not on the fact that he could not ride at all even if re-declared (which was quite clearly rubbish).

 

For what its worth, I don't think Mildenhall have cheated, they have just been sloppy.

 

Someone somewhere certainly has, but without having all of the facts, it's virtually impossible to make that call.

It could simply be a case of someone in Rugby forgetting to send out the declared 1-7s or similar admin error. Nothing in this wonderful sport would surprise me!

 

Equally, it doesn't mean that Mildenhall were right & Dudley were wrong. It could be a case of Mildenhall winning one of the BSPA's infamous coin tosses

 

Either way, am glad it's all sorted. Trophies should be won on the track, and not in the BSPA offices.

[Heathen1984 139]

Exactly mildy were the best team on the day, lets tAke nothing away from you, think you have koc in the bag, realistically we aint got no chance in that. Play offs or nothing for the heathens. Might aswell all move on now i think

[norwichkev 66]

Exactly mildy were the best team on the day, lets tAke nothing away from you, think you have koc in the bag, realistically we aint got no chance in that. Play offs or nothing for the heathens. Might aswell all move on now i think

Think you are spot on. Weather and injuries have played a major part this year, would love to have seen both first choice 7's in final meetings.

 

Whoever wins what is a long time until next March. Lets hope both promotions are still running in 2013.

 

Kev

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Someone somewhere certainly has, but without having all of the facts, it's virtually impossible to make that call.

It could simply be a case of someone in Rugby forgetting to send out the declared 1-7s or similar admin error. Nothing in this wonderful sport would surprise me!

 

Equally, it doesn't mean that Mildenhall were right & Dudley were wrong. It could be a case of Mildenhall winning one of the BSPA's infamous coin tosses

 

Either way, am glad it's all sorted. Trophies should be won on the track, and not in the BSPA offices.

 

As always, Mr M, good point and entirely believable (especially the coin toss ).

 

The only thing is in the Mildenhall press release they don't mention a re-declaration with Bates in the side (although they do with Isherwood). Given the situation, you'd have thought they would, wouldn't you ?

 

I can appreciate the remarks about moving on, but once again we have a far deeper issue than Mildenhall, Dudley and the fate of the honours in the NL this season. Its about us all being satisfied that due process has taken place and that the outcome is entirely in accordance with the rules of the sport. This is yet another example when speedway fans of whatever persuasion are left doubting that that is the case and that happens far too much.

[Super Blue 616]

One would suggest that if the bspa have ruled that Josh was entitled to ride that he WAS redeclared and just maybe someone forgot to update the list ! Otherwise why would they have made that decision ?

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

One would suggest that if the bspa have ruled that Josh was entitled to ride that he WAS redeclared and just maybe someone forgot to update the list ! Otherwise why would they have made that decision ?

 

Both you & Mr M could be right when you say it could have been some sort of screw up by the BSPA but, if that's the case, why haven't Mildenhall stated that they did re-declare and why haven't the BSPA confirmed that ?

 

The thing is that many decisions made by the BSPA cannot be relied upon in the slightest to adhere to the regulation specific to the situation at hand. In addition, its all done in secret so we will never know what the actual position is.

 

We can speculate but once again we are left with a discrepancy hanging in the air when a simple explanation would clear things up for good. The failure to do so leads me to believe that there is something underhand here - basically they don't say anything because they can't justify it - and that's the wider and far more important issue. Whether Bates could ride or not isn't the problem, its an example of the problem.

[norwichkev 66]

Both you & Mr M could be right when you say it could have been some sort of screw up by the BSPA but, if that's the case, why haven't Mildenhall stated that they did re-declare and why haven't the BSPA confirmed that ?

 

The thing is that many decisions made by the BSPA cannot be relied upon in the slightest to adhere to the regulation specific to the situation at hand. In addition, its all done in secret so we will never know what the actual position is.

 

We can speculate but once again we are left with a discrepancy hanging in the air when a simple explanation would clear things up for good. The failure to do so leads me to believe that there is something underhand here - basically they don't say anything because they can't justify it - and that's the wider and far more important issue. Whether Bates could ride or not isn't the problem, its an example of the problem.

 

Understand what you are saying HT, but TBF I like many others including your good self speculate on most things - we do not know the facts, nor are privvy to hidden paperwork etc, etc ( excepting the deliberate "leaks" that are fed out, similar to politics )

 

An oft used phrase "in the best interests of Speedway" springs to mind and I suspect is bought into play ( seems to be more prevalent in the Elite ) and love him ( not seen many ) or hate him somebody like Peter Morrish has an exceptionally difficult role to perform - could any of us do any better though?

 

Rules throughout Speedway after 80+ years are still over complicated and exceptionally loose and open to manipulation in what is basically a very simple sport, and will continue to be so until there is a step change in structure.

 

Kev

[PhilK 150]

 

The only thing is in the Mildenhall press release they don't mention a re-declaration with Bates in the side (although they do with Isherwood). Given the situation, you'd have thought they would, wouldn't you ?

 

 

 

From the Mildenhall press release yesterday -

 

' The BSPA have given clearance for Mildenhall Fen Tigers to continue to use their teenage star Josh Bates in their line-up until the end of the season'

 

 

 

That covers it I would say.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Understand what you are saying HT, but TBF I like many others including your good self speculate on most things - we do not know the facts, nor are privvy to hidden paperwork etc, etc ( excepting the deliberate "leaks" that are fed out, similar to politics )

 

An oft used phrase "in the best interests of Speedway" springs to mind and I suspect is bought into play ( seems to be more prevalent in the Elite ) and love him ( not seen many ) or hate him somebody like Peter Morrish has an exceptionally difficult role to perform - could any of us do any better though?

 

Rules throughout Speedway after 80+ years are still over complicated and exceptionally loose and open to manipulation in what is basically a very simple sport, and will continue to be so until there is a step change in structure.

 

Kev

 

I am not sure that it is difficult to make a judgement on whether a rider was in a team's declared line up or not. Personally, I'd say that it is extremely easy.

 

I make decisions every day on legislation that is extremely complex, frequently changing and subject to interpretation. I justify every single one of them and they are made available in full to the parties concerned. Some of the decisions aren't easy, but the process itself most certainly is. There's absolutely no reason why speedway could not have something similar.

 

As you rightly say, though, until there is a change in structure we will have to put up with the secrecy and the frequent use of the 'best interests of speedway' (which can justify almost anything, including that which runs directly contrary to the rule book).

 

 

' The BSPA have given clearance for Mildenhall Fen Tigers to continue to use their teenage star Josh Bates in their line-up until the end of the season'

 

 

 

That covers it I would say.

 

Personally, I'd treat anything the BSPA rule with a degree of suspicion.

 

To be fair Bates is quite clearly eligible to ride, although whether he was on Sunday is an entirely different matter(he is not in the declaration dated 28/09/12 for Mildenhall, but is in that dated 12/10/12.)

Edited October 13, 2012 by Halifaxtiger

[21st century heathen 220]

21st century heathen do you feel like apologising now, twice now you've been proved wrong and yet no word, surely you cannot continue to accuse the governing body of being wrong or does dudley make the rules now

 

Apologise for what? I formed an opinion based on the information available. And, incidentally, the declared team for the date of the meeting still does not have Bates in the line-up. Far from being proven wrong the only information we have, and it is all we should need, suggests the team that Mildenhall tracked was illegal. The powers-that-be don't always follow the rules. Why do you think there are so many arguments on here about rules being ignored, made up or somehow circumnavigated? My mate SCB (the forum member) has posted a list before now about the number of teams that have re/declarations against the rules, riders with the wrong average, ineligible guests etcetera.

 

Only three clubs in the NL complied fully with the rules in their initial declaration this season, and neither Dudley nor Mildenhall were amongst those three. The rules and reg's are treated more like a set of rough guidelines and until it's tightened up and there is transparency in the decision-making process there will always be fans like me, and many others, grumbling about this, that or the other.

 

I do not believe that Mildenhall deliberately cheated or tried something underhand to gain an advantage, and once again, as I did at the time, I congratulate the team on their win on the day and well done, again, to Bates for a cracking return to action.

 

The SCB write the rules. The BSPA have made a ruling and so we must accept it and move on whether any of us feel it's right or not.

 

I wish Bates all the best for the rest of the season and beyond. The lad clearly has some natural ability and I hope he continues his improvement quickly.