glasgowmicktiger 142 Posted October 8, 2012 Well done chris hard lines nikki. ref got it right imo. np leaned on holder what was holder to do? It could have been nasty incident but wasnt when a world championships at stake and clearly np knew what he was doing all 4 back was correct choice. and b.t.w some posters on here need to get a grip aussie bashings not cool 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
lucifer sam 3,954 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) One thing this has yet again proves is that Nicki Pedersen is brilliant box office. He helps to create more headlines than any other speedway rider. Like others, I suspect he had a plan to try to get Holder out of the race. It didn't work, but boy did he create a talking point, which will extend beyond the usual speedway community. All the best Rob Edited October 8, 2012 by lucifer sam 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 That is exactly what happened. The referee had to make a decision and he made the decision that is not in the rule book. By not excluding Holder, the referee gave Holder an advantage by giving him a second chance. Holder was off a better gate then Nicki and Holder made a better start the second time. 2. Please show me where in the rules it says that the referee can allow all 4 back. The referee job is to exclude the causing of the stoppage in this case Holder who made a worse start then Nicki. Holder then first pushed Nicki out, then lost control, then slamming into Nicki again while still being out of control. Holder is clearly the rider at fault. UNSATISFACTORY start, referee has the option of stopping the race and restarting with all four riders. That is in the rulebook. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 Yes but Phil the start was ok?! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Shaker 106 Posted October 8, 2012 That is exactly what happened. The referee had to make a decision and he made the decision that is not in the rule book. By not excluding Holder, the referee gave Holder an advantage by giving him a second chance. In what way was Holder given an advantage? Pedersen also had 2 attempts, his first didn't work, his second was simply not good enough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 Yes but Phil the start was ok?! WITH two riders down on the track? Didn't look like a satisfactory start to me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
g13webb 4,254 Posted October 8, 2012 I have no doubt this thread will run on and on. Both sides of the argument feel they are both justified. No one will ever changed what happened. Chris Holder is a worthy World Champion. Had this situation had happened in any other race, any other meeting, Holder would have been excluded. and that tells me what was right and what is wrong. Its a pity that the event governed the rules whereas it should be the rules govern the event. The ref took the easy option. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706 Posted October 8, 2012 Any similarities??? Just saying... One big difference - the guy on the floor got up and won. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Phil Silvers 59 Posted October 8, 2012 Go back and watch the first 20 yards again where Nikki tries to make Chris ride the grass and then tell me it was the wrong decision! Well played ref - you saw straight through Pedersens little game there and called it spot on. In regard to the moment the tapes rose, Pedesen got in front of Holder and took the tight inside line (clamped him down). Holder had two choices, shut off or ride the centre green. He chose to partially ride the green but Nicki was in front immediately at the first corner. Only when Holders momentum around the bend meant he natuarlly drifted out he then hit Pedersen. Ref bottled it end of. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 Phil Down on the track coming out of the corner! Is that the start? I think not! When does the start end in your opinion? after half a lap? 1 lap? or when it suits? If we are being real the start must be before half way round the first corner! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy den boy 19 Posted October 8, 2012 Phil im sure you havnt got anything against Nikki,same as i havnt against Holder,but please answer my question when Holder decided to cut the corner (not pushed to do so,but what he has done at the same corner all season)is he asking for trouble by jumping the curb ? yes or no Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
The Know 221 Posted October 8, 2012 UNSATISFACTORY start, referee has the option of stopping the race and restarting with all four riders. That is in the rulebook. wasnt the start but around first corner, holders fault as should of shut off as lost the coerner. fim rules state race stopped someone has to go. holder would of won anyway but wrong call. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 Phil im sure you havnt got anything against Nikki,same as i havnt against Holder,but please answer my question when Holder decided to cut the corner (not pushed to do so,but what he has done at the same corner all season)is he asking for trouble by jumping the curb ? yes or no CERTAINLY don't have anything against Nicki. Plenty of riders cut the corner at Torun and elsewhere. Prague is (or at least was) a classic. It's not illegal and becomes so only if both wheels cross the white line. So, to answer your question in one word: no. The 'start' of a race obviously includes what happens on the first corner. Just how far is at the referee's discretion. Phil Silvers: this one will probably run and run like Carter and Penhall. So, not the end of it. And certainly not because you think your opinion is absolute. Incidentally, one other GP referee who was there (not British) fully concurred with Craig Ackroyd. Ultimately Holder beat Pedersen twice on the night and was, at the conclusion of 12 rounds, the rightful champion. Throughout the season there has been plenty of incidents when referee's decisions might have gone the other way. Both Holder and Pedersen can lay claim to unfair exclusions. This time both had a second bite at the cherry. Which, in my book at least, seems fair. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted October 8, 2012 UNSATISFACTORY start, referee has the option of stopping the race and restarting with all four riders. That is in the rulebook. Quite. The start was fine, the cause of the stoppage was a first bend incident on the first lap. Yes, many (mostly British) referees use the rule to bottle out of making a decision but that doesn't make it right - somebody should have been excluded. Over the years, I've seen far more non-exclusions for unsatisfactory extended starts in GB than anywhere else and it's about time our refs were told to grow some (or whatever the female equivalent is for our three ladies) and make a decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
