SCB 0 Posted March 13, 2015 You obviously have no understanding of the situation in the 1950's which look to be well before your time. I wonder why you even poked your nose in. Presumably just trying to be controversial or perhaps looking to be the next Shovlar. I suggest you look up what a discussion forum is. Nobody is "poking their nose in" on a public forum! It was suggested he was a reserve standard rider, 4.5-5.5 averages as he generally achieved would have made him a reserve standard rider would it not? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunters 210 Posted March 14, 2015 So he once scored a 15 point maximum but still couldvt average more than 6.08? Take away that maximum and that season he averaged 4.48. It's looks to me like he was a 4.5 rider who from time to time threw in a great meeting. 4.5 men are generally reserves. Even a mathematical genius could not take 15 points and 5 rides from a full seasons total and drop the average by 1.6 points. It looks so obviously ridiculous. So much for creditability. The correct statistic is 159 League points from 104 rides giving a GSA of 6.11. Adjusting for the maximum would have made it 144 points from 99 rides giving a GSA of 5.81. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hunters 210 Posted March 14, 2015 I suggest you look up what a discussion forum is. Nobody is "poking their nose in" on a public forum! It was suggested he was a reserve standard rider, 4.5-5.5 averages as he generally achieved would have made him a reserve standard rider would it not? It most certainly would not, a quick look at that particular season averages gives second strings such as Mike Broadbanks (Swi) 4.16, Cyril Maidment (Wim) 5.07,Cyril Brine (Wim) 5.36, Bryan Elliott (Lei) 2.95,Harry Edwards (Nor) 4.80, Reg Duval (Cov) 5.31, Jim Tolley (Cov) 3.57,Al Allison (Bra) 4.06, Guy Alloyy (Bra) 4.61, Jimmy Squibb (Sou) 4.35, Alby Golden (Sou) 4.86, Bill Holden (Sou) 4.52, Ray Cresp (Ox) 4.20, Hoedy Byford (Ox) 4.25, Roy Bowers (Ox) 4.64, Bert Edwards (Ips) 4.43, Jimmy Gooch(Ips) 3.65, Pete Lansdale(Ray) 4.68, Peter Clark(Ray) 5.1, Alf Hagon's 6.11 was his best year, indeed he was 35th in the overall table, but an average of 4.5/ 5.5 was very much a second string. Now for the reserves, at least the more regular ones, as even a young Ivan Mauger could not hold down a reserve berth. Bob Andrews(Wim) 2.92, Des Haswell (Lei) 0.86, Wal Morton (Nor)2.32, Geoff Pymer (Nor)3.28, Slant Payling(B Vue) 3.06, Les Owen( Cov) 3.06, Frank Johnson (Ox) 2.54, Danny Dunton (Ips) 3.09, Johnny Fitzpatrick (Ips) 2.47, Maury McDermott (Ray) 3.07. Now that was the reserve standard. Now I will be the one to suggest. If you are going to chip in on the older times get some understanding of the situation. In 1950 there were 34 League teams which fell to only 11 by 1957 and 9 in 1959. Team spots were at a premium and inevitably it was the better riders who took a lot of the places making for some strong heat leader combinations. A second string usually had to ride 4 of his 5 outings against 2 quality heat leaders, his job was simply to beat his opposite number for third place. Dependent on his place in the team or Home /Away he would get either another second string or reserve as partner in his 5th race and that had to be his chance to get a pay day. If they shared the points between them all 2nd strings would struggle to beat 4.5 or so. A 5.0 was a nights work really well done riding for most teams with a chance of a bonanza against a Rayleigh with not so strong heat leaders but more competitive second strings. Little or no chance against the likes of Wimbledon ,Norwich or Belle Vue . I don't know why I have wasted my time with you but I will finish with what I started. Alf Hagon was no reserve. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
customhouseregular 1,651 Posted March 14, 2015 It most certainly would not, a quick look at that particular season averages gives second strings such as Mike Broadbanks (Swi) 4.16, Cyril Maidment (Wim) 5.07,Cyril Brine (Wim) 5.36, Bryan Elliott (Lei) 2.95,Harry Edwards (Nor) 4.80, Reg Duval (Cov) 5.31, Jim Tolley (Cov) 3.57,Al Allison (Bra) 4.06, Guy Alloyy (Bra) 4.61, Jimmy Squibb (Sou) 4.35, Alby Golden (Sou) 4.86, Bill Holden (Sou) 4.52, Ray Cresp (Ox) 4.20, Hoedy Byford (Ox) 4.25, Roy Bowers (Ox) 4.64, Bert Edwards (Ips) 4.43, Jimmy Gooch(Ips) 3.65, Pete Lansdale(Ray) 4.68, Peter Clark(Ray) 5.1, Alf Hagon's 6.11 was his best year, indeed he was 35th in the overall table, but an average of 4.5/ 5.5 was very much a second string. Now for the reserves, at least the more regular ones, as even a young Ivan Mauger could not hold down a reserve berth. Bob Andrews(Wim) 2.92, Des Haswell (Lei) 0.86, Wal Morton (Nor)2.32, Geoff Pymer (Nor)3.28, Slant Payling(B Vue) 3.06, Les Owen( Cov) 3.06, Frank Johnson (Ox) 2.54, Danny Dunton (Ips) 3.09, Johnny Fitzpatrick (Ips) 2.47, Maury McDermott (Ray) 3.07. Now that was the reserve standard. Now I will be the one to suggest. If you are going to chip in on the older times get some understanding of the situation. In 1950 there were 34 League teams which fell to only 11 by 1957 and 9 in 1959. Team spots were at a premium and inevitably it was the better riders who took a lot of the places making for some strong heat leader combinations. A second string usually had to ride 4 of his 5 outings against 2 quality heat leaders, his job was simply to beat his opposite number for third place. Dependent on his place in the team or Home /Away he would get either another second string or reserve as partner in his 5th race and that had to be his chance to get a pay day. If they shared the points between them all 2nd strings would struggle to beat 4.5 or so. A 5.0 was a nights work really well done riding for most teams with a chance of a bonanza against a Rayleigh with not so strong heat leaders but more competitive second strings. Little or no chance against the likes of Wimbledon ,Norwich or Belle Vue . I don't know why I have wasted my time with you but I will finish with what I started. Alf Hagon was no reserve. An excellent post my friend and very informative. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ben91 1,743 Posted March 14, 2015 I can't wait to see how Alf Hagon does for the Kings this year. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Parsloes 1928 nearly 495 Posted March 14, 2015 I'm all for allowing threads on any Forum to go with the flow but the Alf Hagon 'debate' has all but taken over a thread meant to be about this year's Kent SLYDE Kings.. Enough already surely now... 6 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnTwo 317 Posted March 14, 2015 Alf was and still Is a legend Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
00000 1,279 Posted March 17, 2015 Alf was and still Is a legend Absolutely Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mjolnir 184 Posted March 17, 2015 I'm looking forward to seeing Danny and Danno at Lakeside on Friday! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teaboy279 1,038 Posted March 17, 2015 Have they announced a full line up for Friday yet? Found it now Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I cant say I have particularly high hopes given the line up.......I shall consider it a bonus if either rider scores a couple of points and Adam completes all 3 rides.... Edited March 18, 2015 by Sings4Kings Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TurnTwo 317 Posted March 18, 2015 No disrespect to Danno but he is no more than a 3 pointer - 4 pointer if hes lucky he will struggle at kent as his average last year was predominantly based on his home track record and once again most riders with some balls and good equipment can ride fast round in a circle at scunthorpe. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
blueherb777 571 Posted March 18, 2015 How come Sheppard is riding and not Danny Ayres ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sings4Speedway 3,247 Posted March 18, 2015 Due to Adam's Lakeside connection from the past I guess? Or solely because he is willing and available. Many of us forget that NL riders take a lot of time off work to compete. Its one thing booking time off for league commitments but another for challenge matches.......however good and worthwhile the cause is. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mjolnir 184 Posted March 18, 2015 How come Sheppard is riding and not Danny Ayres ? I'm wondering the same - the Lakeside announcement said it was Danny and Danno with no mention of Sheppard. I think the Kent pair might struggle but it'll be track time nonetheless! 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites