Stoke's 5-year Plan

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In terms of entertainment the NL can be one of the best however I think the Premier League is the best product.

 

In the EL and NL it is rarer to see reserves challenging and beating heatleaders because of the differing levels of quality between them. The PL offers a lot more close races. The ideal scenario IMO is to have a PL team and a NL side to help develop your own riders.

Do you know why its rare to see reserves beating heat leaders in the EL? Because they don't ride against each others.

 

However, prior to the change in 2014, I run the stats off previously for 2012 and 2013 to see how often reserves beat heat leaders in the PL and EL and the FACT are that as a % of heats EL reserves beat EL heat leaders more often than PL reserves beat PL heat leaders.

 

D'oh!

[TheCookster 57]

Do you know why its rare to see reserves beating heat leaders in the EL? Because they don't ride against each others.

 

However, prior to the change in 2014, I run the stats off previously for 2012 and 2013 to see how often reserves beat heat leaders in the PL and EL and the FACT are that as a % of heats EL reserves beat EL heat leaders more often than PL reserves beat PL heat leaders.

 

D'oh!

Interesting ... Always fun to look at the stats :-)

 

If you look at the best v the worst i.e. the top ranked heat leader v the lowest ranked reserve, do the stats still say the same? And how does that look for th NL?

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Interesting ... Always fun to look at the stats :-)

 

If you look at the best v the worst i.e. the top ranked heat leader v the lowest ranked reserve, do the stats still say the same? And how does that look for th NL?

I don't have any stats for the NL yet - but intent to have them for this season.

 

I'll run off the other stats for you later - should I remember. But as an educated guess, I bet the EL number 7s beat EL 1st more often than PL number 7 beat PL number 1s. Think about it, theres a lot more riders in the PL than the EL so it stands to reason the gap between the top and the bottom would have been greater. Admittedly that gap has been artificially widened now but as I said, they don't race each other. The bottom EL reserves tend to be the better PL reserves and the better EL second strings tend to be PL number 1st so the biggest difference between the two sets of riders is probably slightly smaller in he EL at present.

[TheCookster 57]

I don't have any stats for the NL yet - but intent to have them for this season.

 

I'll run off the other stats for you later - should I remember. But as an educated guess, I bet the EL number 7s beat EL 1st more often than PL number 7 beat PL number 1s. Think about it, theres a lot more riders in the PL than the EL so it stands to reason the gap between the top and the bottom would have been greater. Admittedly that gap has been artificially widened now but as I said, they don't race each other. The bottom EL reserves tend to be the better PL reserves and the better EL second strings tend to be PL number 1st so the biggest difference between the two sets of riders is probably slightly smaller in he EL at present.

I take your point SCB, but the total averages available for team building in the EL over recent seasons has tended to lead to most teams having one outstanding rider at the top of the averages and then a mediocre mix below him. I also accept that this is likely to be not quite so extreme this season with the increase in the EL team average.

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I take your point SCB, but the total averages available for team building in the EL over recent seasons has tended to lead to most teams having one outstanding rider at the top of the averages and then a mediocre mix below him. I also accept that this is likely to be not quite so extreme this season with the increase in the EL team average.

Just taking the last 2 EL meeting. Both on Monday. Heat 1. At Wolves the two second strings (two lowest average riders in the 1-5) finished 1st and 2nd and the home number 1 finished last. While at BV at about the same time Majet Zagar the home number 1 was finishing behind Coventry #5 Stuart Robson who is the 2nd lowest EL rider by average in 2015.

 

In the BV vs Coventry meeting the Coventry reserve score a full maximum.

 

Thats just taking the two most recent EL meetings. They certainly make RocketBen1s claims look very, very wrong!

[Stoke Potter 242]

Tattum has stated that there wasn't a 2,3,4,5 or whatever year plan to return to the PL. I think you can forget it happening under the present promotion.

PL racing is by far the best, EL can be ok with 2 strong teams, which rarely happens.

The NL racing I've seen is pretty mediocre, races generally strung out with loads of fallers.

The Rye match on Sunday was actually one of the better ones I've seen and even that had falls in 10 of the heats.

The best racing was produced by Chessell and Perry who were willing to ride wide lines that not even the home riders would take on.

The track could also be improved with better watering equipment. At one point immediately after the track had been watered dust was coming up as soon as the bikes hit the bends, that needs sorting out. It wasn't massive clouds of dust admittedly but if there was some moisture in the depth of the track it would improve the racing lines.

Great to see some investment to spruce up the stadium but get some decent watering kit too.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

Thing is the best and the worst riders in the EL don't actually meet under the format. I think the EL struggles for entertainment purely because of the tracks it has, the PL generally has the better racetracks in the UK (Scunny, Somerset, P'boro, Sheffield, Plymouth) and these circuits will provide the better racing whichever league they are in. Also beauty is in the eye of the beholder, some people prefer NL action but others would say because the skill factor and speed is less it's not as exciting however much passing you get. I've always struggled to really enjoy NL racing despite going to a handful of meetings every year since it started in the 1990's, whereas others swear by it and some only go to NL meetings.

 

That's the way I have always seen it - its not the riders, its the track.

 

To illustrate the point, Peterborough have dropped down and Leicester have gone up. One's still brilliant and the other is still crap.

 

I was faced with someone telling me that they won't go to NL speedway at Birmingham because its so much slower (10 seconds a race I was told). In actual fact, the NL track record is 4 seconds slower than the all time EL/PL one - I defy anyone to say they would notice a second a lap. |I drew the conclusion that that was just an excuse not to go to NL speedway, however entertaining it might be.

 

In truth, the best meetings I have seen at your place have been NL ones.

 

 

Stoke itself can provide excellent racing, with a variety of lines, which I believe is wasted at NL level where many riders do not yet have the skills to exploit them.

 

In my view, Stoke is one of the best shaped tracks in British Speedway. The problem is its rarely (if ever) prepared to the standard that would produce the quality of speedway that its shape would allow.

[TheCookster 57]

Tattum has stated that there wasn't a 2,3,4,5 or whatever year plan to return to the PL. I think you can forget it happening under the present promotion.

 

He may well have since stated that there was no such 5-year plan ... but I and several hundred other people know very well what was stated at the time.

 

I also think you are absolutely right that it is highly unlikely to happen under the current promotion. I was playing devil's advocate when I started this thread, in full knowledge of how this promotion has operated over the years and continually treated its paying customers as mugs. Hence my own decision to cease putting any more their way four years ago. I said back then on the Stoke forum that I would return to Stoke when the promotion took the club back into the PL at the end of the 5-year plan. If that happens then I will be true to my word, but I suspect I won't have to be, because the promotion won't have been true to theirs.

[*JJ 520]

I was faced with someone telling me that they won't go to NL speedway at Birmingham because its so much slower (10 seconds a race I was told). In actual fact, the NL track record is 4 seconds slower than the all time EL/PL one - I defy anyone to say they would notice a second a lap. |I drew the conclusion that that was just an excuse not to go to NL speedway, however entertaining it might be.

 

Times at Birmingham this year have been only 1 or 2 seconds slower than the ELITE league! No-one had ever got near Jason Lyons' PL track record,

[TheCookster 57]

 

I was faced with someone telling me that they won't go to NL speedway at Birmingham because its so much slower (10 seconds a race I was told). In actual fact, the NL track record is 4 seconds slower than the all time EL/PL one - I defy anyone to say they would notice a second a lap. |I drew the conclusion that that was just an excuse not to go to NL speedway, however entertaining it might be.

 

Times at Birmingham this year have been only 1 or 2 seconds slower than the ELITE league! No-one had ever got near Jason Lyons' PL track record,

 

There is no real issue with the speed the guys in the NL can ride at when they have a clear track, it has more to do with a lack of overall track craft. This was, after all, the reason why the NL was created, so that riders would have the opportunity to develop their skills in a competitive environment before moving on to compete at a higher standard.

[TMW 533]

There is no real issue with the speed the guys in the NL can ride at when they have a clear track, it has more to do with a lack of overall track craft. This was, after all, the reason why the NL was created, so that riders would have the opportunity to develop their skills in a competitive environment before moving on to compete at a higher standard.

Probably an example where you have seen track craft used in any league, these days, would be handy as I don't see any.

[TheCookster 57]

Probably an example where you have seen track craft used in any league, these days, would be handy as I don't see any.

If you are genuinely not seeing ANY track craft, then I think you should seriously consider changing the venue and / or level that you are watching speedway at. ;-)

[TMW 533]

If you are genuinely not seeing ANY track craft, then I think you should seriously consider changing the venue and / or level that you are watching speedway at. ;-)

No.I think it's down to the individual rider not league or track. Most of them likr to gste and hug the white line.

[TheCookster 57]

No.I think it's down to the individual rider not league or track. Most of them likr to gste and hug the white line.

Precisely. Which is why you need a track that offers different racing lines and riders with the confidence and track craft to exploit those different lines.

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

No.I think it's down to the individual rider not league or track. Most of them likr to gste and hug the white line.

 

I'm with Cookster. You're going to the wrong tracks.

 

Frequent visitor to Leicester, by any chance ?