SCB 15 Posted August 7, 2015 I don't know or have the time to look at the stats. I've thrown some names out there and I happen to think Holder is far better then Harris but if the stats say otherwise then again I'll hold my hands up.Harris was 4th in last seasons EL averages. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPNY 608 Posted August 7, 2015 What problem is one big league at PL level fixing? Berwick are still buggered, Workington are in trouble. Redcar still riding in front of 350 people, Scunthorpe still in a mess.... Or do you think Coventry, Poole, Swindon and Lakeside turning up will get 1000s of people to turn up at Berwick, Workington, Redcar and Scunthorpe? All I'm suggesting is a bigger league with higher quality riders and more variety for the fans (ie not seeing the same team at the track 4+ times a year) may go some way to improving things. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shale Searcher 1,264 Posted August 7, 2015 All I'm suggesting is a bigger league with higher quality riders and more variety for the fans (ie not seeing the same team at the track 4+ times a year) may go some way to improving things. Where are these higher quality riders going to come from? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
teddy2706 166 Posted August 7, 2015 The talk of amalgamating the EL and PL is exciting, the North/South divide is not for me. Before anyone asks, I do watch live speedway, I was at Buxton last sunday and will be at Scunny tonight, Highways England, weather and Rob Godfrey permitting. I should also be at Stoke every saturday, but as a Narker cannot enter the stadium at Loomer rd. Speedway was best for me in the eighties when I watched National League and British League, super times indeed. I could watch Dave Perks riding against the wonderful Kelvin Mullarkey on wednesdays, then watch Erik Gundersen and Alan Grahame on a saturday riding against the hugely entertaining Dennis Sigalos and Donkey, what more could I ask for? Both products at that time suited me just fine, so too did ther admission cost. Added to that, Test Matches on sundays were just brilliant, even more so if Michael bothered to show up. Mr. Rising has some interesting ideas and cares passionately for speedway, but not every idea is a good one at a given time, it may be at another time though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Truro Robin 39 Posted August 7, 2015 For me the issue is not that the top guys are winning too many races (as they don't) but more than the format doesn't allow them to win enough and have an air of invincibility around them, meaning when they are beat its a bit thing. Go back to the 13 heat format, all rider meet all other riders. Then you'd soon see Puk, Magic, Holder, Harris etc averaging between 9.5 and 11. They'd be big names, it would be a big thing to see one of them beat. But seeing them ride against each other all the time and only averaging 6.5 as a heat leader makes it harder to promote that the superstar that is.... Puk/Magic/Holder/Harris is in town. I don't completely buy that it's the current format that's lowering the top rider's averages. Using the old 15 heat format, your No.1 would have 5 rides, including the nominated heat and would probably ride against 7 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 1 reserve; I'd say no easier than the current format yet riders such as Adams and Crump would average 9.5 - 10 season after season. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted August 7, 2015 All I'm suggesting is a bigger league with higher quality riders and more variety for the fans (ie not seeing the same team at the track 4+ times a year) may go some way to improving things. You want to kick out the higher quality riders, then have a 'bigger league'.. with 'higher quality riders'. How is that going to work? Remember many of the 'higher quality riders' in the Premier League are already in EL teams anyway. Kick out some of the EL heat leaders plus those gaps to fill from riders doubling up and fast tracking and they can only come from one place.. the National League. Thus giving you a far, far lower standard of league and races with Chris Harris against National League 2nd strings... Now THAT will be strung out racing. I don't completely buy that it's the current format that's lowering the top rider's averages. Using the old 15 heat format, your No.1 would have 5 rides, including the nominated heat and would probably ride against 7 heat leaders, 2 second strings and 1 reserve; I'd say no easier than the current format yet riders such as Adams and Crump would average 9.5 - 10 season after season. Oh dear. I really do despair at times! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPNY 608 Posted August 7, 2015 Where are these higher quality riders going to come from? An amalgamation of the 2 leagues with only the 'Elite of Elite' riders dropping out. However I keep getting shot down for that idea so I'm dropping it now lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Truro Robin 39 Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) You want to kick out the higher quality riders, then have a 'bigger league'.. with 'higher quality riders'. How is that going to work? Remember many of the 'higher quality riders' in the Premier League are already in EL teams anyway. Kick out some of the EL heat leaders plus those gaps to fill from riders doubling up and fast tracking and they can only come from one place.. the National League. Thus giving you a far, far lower standard of league and races with Chris Harris against National League 2nd strings... Now THAT will be strung out racing. Oh dear. I really do despair at times! Why? At least have a counter argument instead of just being a smart ass. Edited August 7, 2015 by Truro Robin 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted August 7, 2015 An amalgamation of the 2 leagues with only the 'Elite of Elite' riders dropping out. However I keep getting shot down for that idea so I'm dropping it now lol So you kick out the "elite of the Elite" leaving you with only the double uppers. So you now have to find 70 riders. You don't want to the Elite riders, so where are you getting your 70 riders from? It has to be the NL. Bear in mind that most EL teams bottom 4 are already riding in the PL. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,402 Posted August 7, 2015 An amalgamation of the 2 leagues with only the 'Elite of Elite' riders dropping out. However I keep getting shot down for that idea so I'm dropping it now lol you are right to drop it - you'll get nothing but abuse trouble is you're totally correct too many deluded folks on here still think we can afford to have GP riders in our league teams in front of 4/500 fans yes you could fill teams with stars like Swedish and Polish leagues and hope the fans come back but no one will take such a financial risk in the current climate prune the thing back and build from there and I'm dropping out of the argument too before the bully boys come in with personal attacks 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
moxey63 1,785 Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) I still go most weeks, out of habit rather than enjoyment. It's not the difference in the standard of riders that puts me off. I can remember Ivan Mauger and Hans Nielsen averaging over 11 points per match and our reserves not having a chance in hell of beating them, but I still wanted to see them. What bothers me and is making me disillusioned is that half the riders on my team ride for somebody else. It doesn't apply so much this year but I can think of a rider who rode for my team who didn't seem to put in nearly as much effort as when riding for his parent track at the higher level. I can only speak for myself and give the reason why I don't go as often as I did. My feelings are echoed by you Matt. I used to attend, in my latter years between 200-06, out of habit. I didn't pay to get in and still felt I couldn't be arsed, felt as if someone was forcing me to attend jury service. I stopped going about nine years back, haven't missed it, never watch it, and yet still yet still hanker for the speedway pages on the internet! But more so the old stuff on ebay, old topics etc. I too got/get sick of seeing so many riders racing for so many teams. I couldn't keep up with who was where, the double points rule etc, it put me off. I couldn't name a single team from 1-7 this year, but am still a fan of speedway, if only the years dot through to the mid-2000s. I still admire a good race - the Swedish League match the other night was quite good. But the team ethic has gone, riders can't focus on spreading themselves so thinly between different sides. You see some of the old boys in their racejackets, and they may as well have had them as skin, they were inseparable. I want to support a team that I know all the boys are my boys, where other clubs turn out with all their own men, not a season set up so that Poole (example) can eat their spinach just at the right time and come good, like that wrestling game, in which the good guy comes good after getting set upon until a certain point. Speedway has gone backwards and is more a circus act than it ever was. Edited August 7, 2015 by moxey63 3 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BWitcher 12,453 Posted August 7, 2015 you are right to drop it - you'll get nothing but abuse trouble is you're totally correct too many deluded folks on here still think we can afford to have GP riders in our league teams in front of 4/500 fans yes you could fill teams with stars like Swedish and Polish leagues and hope the fans come back but no one will take such a financial risk in the current climate prune the thing back and build from there and I'm dropping out of the argument too before the bully boys come in with personal attacks He isn't correct. It's been explained numerous times. SCB has explained it above. Being correct doesn't make someone a bully. Talking nonsense and then saying you are 'dropping out' doesn't make you right. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SCB 15 Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) There are 26 doubling up riders in the EL. There are 19 riders on a 6.5+ average. My suggestion of 70 was vastly over estimated above. But 45 riders need to be found. That's 45 NL riders, 45 NL riders who are not already riding PL or EL draft. So you're talking having any rider with a NL average of 4 or more, and you're assuming the likes of Armstrong and Atkins want to be in this big league. You've also forced Danny King, Robert Lambert and Chris Harris out of British speedway. In fact you've forced Danny out of the sport as he only rides in the UK. There are not enough riders for one big league. So it cannot be done. It also does not solve anything. What problem have you fixed by having one big league? Edited August 7, 2015 by SCB Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ch958 2,402 Posted August 7, 2015 He isn't correct. It's been explained numerous times. SCB has explained it above. Being correct doesn't make someone a bully. Talking nonsense and then saying you are 'dropping out' doesn't make you right. SCB has offered an opinion - nothing more. My opinion differs but i haven't got the energy to slog it out with blinkered people - I'm just stating reality as i see it. We can't afford to go on as we are. There are answers - use juniors, smaller teames, etc but i can't be arsed arguing 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPNY 608 Posted August 7, 2015 (edited) But if it's one big league he'll get a lot of meetings in UK. 38+ league matches, KO Cup, Pairs, 4TT, PLRC, plus any other individual meetings etc.Also for a Danny King who MIGHT suffer, there's a Richie Worrall who will be better off. I'd also suggest 6 rider teams. 2 Heat Leaders 2 Second String 2 Res. another Cost cutting exercise as well as assuring teams can be filled. Edited August 7, 2015 by PNYC Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
