Eastbourne 2016

[TurnTwo 317]

Comes under cat 4 or cat 3b hence why they have given him a 5 which is met in the middle of the 3 or the 7

[Hunters 210]

I do not think Ethan or Tom come into the reckoning at least until July, The team must surely be:-

 

1 B Hopwood

2 G Cottham

3 G Wood

4 R Andrews

5 D Spiller

6 K Dugard

7 C Powell

 

Comes to 37.9

 

My only doubt is Cottham but where else can we find somebody under 4.8? No good hoping to take somebody else's rider. It will be a competitive side with a lot of development potential. Initially quite a bit weaker than this year but apart from Mildenhall everyone else is going to have to size down possibly to the 38 mark.

If the number of teams increase next year I can see 36.0 again and a new set of problems.

 

If come July we are having problems at reserve than no doubt Tom will get a chance but Ethan not until 2017 I suspect.

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

Comes under cat 4 or cat 3b hence why they have given him a 5 which is met in the middle of the 3 or the 7

 

He can only be category 4.

[Alex2000 266]

Cottham looked good riding after a meeting and I forgot about him until you said. Maybe he will be.

[TurnTwo 317]

What passport does he hold Alan?

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

What passport does he hold Alan?

 

No idea.

[woofers 467]

Comes under cat 4 or cat 3b hence why they have given him a 5 which is met in the middle of the 3 or the 7

He can only be category 4.

Let's look at this logically-

Cat 1 does not apply (averages) and Cat 2 probably does not apply (on the basis that the National League is not a Professional Speedway League)

Cat 3b refers to riders "new to British Speedway" - so that's not the case is it ?

 

Now, this is where Speedway rules are poorly drafted because 3a and 4 overlap.

 

Cat 4 is clear in that it applies to riders who have riden in the National Development League, (which is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

Cat 3a applies to riders not riding in a Professional Speedway League (Have we established that the National Development League is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

It would therefore appear that Cat 3a can apply to riders who have riden in the National Development League as well as them being classified as a Cat 4. You take your choice....

Confusing?

[Jayne 312]

 

The 3.00 and 5.00 pt rule applies in the NL, not the PL.

 

This is the rule as stated in SCB Regulations regarding riders new to the PL and their averages:

 

18.6 RIDERS MATCH AVERAGES (see SR 16.2 for Definitions) and GRADINGS

18.6.1 Riders new to Premier League racing are categorised as follows:

Cat 1: Riders with an “end of the previous season’s published average” in the Polish

Ekstraliga or the Swedish Elitserien of above 6.00 points and a Rider subject to a

Certificate of Sponsorship

Cat 2: Riders with an “end of the previous season’s published average” in the Polish

Ekstraliga or Swedish Elitserien of 6.00 and below plus ALL other Riders riding

currently in any Professional Speedway League,

Cat 3a: Riders not riding in a Professional Speedway League

Cat 3b: Commonwealth or USA (to a maximum of 4 each season) Riders new to British

Speedway

Cat 4: Riders who have ridden in the National Development League as an Amateur

18.6.2 The Assessed MA's for new Riders to the PL racing is:

Cat 1 8.00

Cat 2 7.00

Cat 3a 5.00

Cat 3b 7.00

Cat 4 3.00

Can you point me to a regulation that states that there is a difference between a rider with a British passport and a rider who has patriality ?

 

If not, Wilson-Dean's PL average is a 3.00.

 

Or is it the case that the BSPA are attempting to make things up and ignore their own rule book again. Shades of Len Silver's insistence that Daniel Spiller came in to the NL on a 5.00, despite the fact that he was a British passport holder and had not ridden in the NL.

Apologies hadn't realise that had been introduced

[Halifaxtiger 5,318]

 

 

Let's look at this logically-

Cat 1 does not apply (averages) and Cat 2 probably does not apply (on the basis that the National League is not a Professional Speedway League)

Cat 3b refers to riders "new to British Speedway" - so that's not the case is it ?

 

Now, this is where Speedway rules are poorly drafted because 3a and 4 overlap.

 

Cat 4 is clear in that it applies to riders who have riden in the National Development League, (which is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

Cat 3a applies to riders not riding in a Professional Speedway League (Have we established that the National Development League is not a Professional Speedway League?)

 

It would therefore appear that Cat 3a can apply to riders who have riden in the National Development League as well as them being classified as a Cat 4. You take your choice....

Confusing?

 

While I accept it is needs to be more specific, that would mean that every rider coming out of the NL at least could be a 7.00 - and its pretty clear they aren't.

 

Its also nothing to do with Wilson-Dean's immigration status, as it could apply to English riders.

 

Wilson-Dean is a 3.00 in the PL, not the 5.00 that both Somerset and Plymouth were quoted.

 

Apologies hadn't realise that had been introduced

 

A promoter being honest and apologising ? Never thought I'd see the day

 

That's your chance of being BSPA chairman gone..............

Edited November 6, 2015 by Halifaxtiger

[catinthehat 115]

If Wilson dean can get a UK passport which he can but not for 3 years means he could come into the PL on a 3. so does that make it right! because he can get one with out a problem must mean he is able to ride in the PL as an English Man.

 

If he is not allowed to get an English passport must mean he is not English.

 

Still makes a joke of it all, it really needs a promoter to take a chance on him and see if he is made out of the stuff we think he is. Give the guy a chance someone.

[woofers 467]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

I am glad you accept it needs to be more specific, that's why we have a problem here (and probably why similar issues arise regarding other rules). Playing devils advocate, you are using Cat 4 (NL rider) quite legitimately, to say it's a 3 pt average, other promoters are using Cat 3a, (not ridden in a Professional League), quite legitimately to argue for a 5 pt average.

 

Unfortunately it's not clear cut however much you argue it. The rules need to be specific and so should be re-written.

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

I am glad you accept it needs to be more specific, that's why we have a problem here (and probably why similar issues arise regarding other rules). Playing devils advocate, you are using Cat 4 (NL rider) quite legitimately, to say it's a 3 pt average, other promoters are using Cat 3a, (not ridden in a Professional League), quite legitimately to argue for a 5 pt average.

 

Unfortunately it's not clear cut however much you argue it. The rules need to be specific and so should be re-written.

 

Past practice shows that Cat 3a refers to non-Commonwealth riders not having ridden in a foreign professional league. Cam Heeps and Todd Kurtz are past examples of riders with patriality or dual nationality (I've lost track of which!) entering the PL from the NL on a 3. 19.9.2.5 refers to British passports and patriality.

 

of course this is all speculation and may be redundant if they change or clarify the rules on December 2nd.

[woofers 467]

Past practice shows that Cat 3a refers to non-Commonwealth riders not having ridden in a foreign professional league. Cam Heeps and Todd Kurtz are past examples of riders with patriality or dual nationality (I've lost track of which!) entering the PL from the NL on a 3. 19.9.2.5 refers to British passports and patriality.

 

of course this is all speculation and may be redundant if they change or clarify the rules on December 2nd.

Precisely why the rules need need to be specific and re-written - why not say 'non -Commonwealth' and 'foreign professional league' in the rules, it's not a lot to change is it ? Past practice .....hmmm, you just know that phrase, when referring to a rule, is going to cause a problem somewhere along the line, and here it is.

 

19.9.2.5 is a requirement relevant to the NL - I thought we were talking about riders moving up from the NL to the PL?

[Alan_Jones 1,005]

19.9.2.5 is a requirement relevant to the NL - I thought we were talking about riders moving up from the NL to the PL?

 

It is, and therefore specifies the only type of riders that will be moving from NL to PL.

[*JJ 512]

OK, let's try again.

 

Cat in the Hat - I can't see where Speedway Regulations 18.6 refer to English or English passports, so where is this 'Englishman on a 3.00 pt average' coming from ?

 

Halifax - how do you get that 'every rider coming out of the NL could be a 7'? To be a 7 you need to have either ridden in a Professional Speedway League (Cat 2) or be Commonwealth or USA and new to British Speedway (Cat 3b). On the basis that the NL isn't a Professional Speedway League it's clear that Cat 2 can't apply, and the riders coming out of the NL wouldn't be 'new to British Speedway' (Cat 3b) would they?

 

In fact, the NL IS a 'Professional Speedway League'; the President of the BSPA said so.