iainb 5,018 Posted August 17, 2017 Yes, but there aren't dozens of riders sat on the sidelines unable to ride due to lack of available spaces. And why is that I wonder? Maybe because a lot of riders are denying opportunities to others by doubling up? It does seem a bit catch 22 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattK 3,447 Posted August 17, 2017 And why is that I wonder? Maybe because a lot of riders are denying opportunities to others by doubling up? It does seem a bit catch 22 When doubling-up was limited we had a lot more journeyman foreign riders. I remember plenty of riders at Swindon who rode for a season or less, David Lampart, Krzysztof Stojanowski, Sergey Darkin, Manuel Hauzinger and I'm sure more I've forgotten. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted August 17, 2017 No – the situation I position is far from being perfect it is idiocy of anyone to assume the exact words they post are the ideal solution to this situation, it isn’t an ideal situation - Chapman himself has said that and is aware of it, anyone discussing the current structure, rules, regulations and rider shortage are also aware of it hence they don’t position what they say as being perfect - it is for the time being a workaround, any proposal would be that. The question you pose ARE the exact reason why there is doubling up yes - hence I would see the situation remain as it is with minor alteration as there isn’t going to be the widespread of riders who wish to race here who will resolve the issue – I said I would prefer a retention of the current standard. I haven’t once mentioned riders coming from abroad, I accept an increase in quality at this time isn’t likely. The minor changes would be in relation to where guests and replacements could be pulled from e.g sides chasing Play Off Places in the Premiership having to use replacements from the Championship if need be rather than riders from other teams in their league competing for the same place - a tightening of who could be used in such instances would help IMO. I don’t think the “quality” I reference is in anyway machinery related, the current standard of rider is the quality fans will look for e:g a Newcastle fans will wish to see a rider the quality of Robert Lambert race for them, not his removal from their side and his place taken by a rider the quality of Shelby Rutherford. Or riders the quality of Starke, Wright etc being taken from the Championship, fans of that league wouldn’t even be getting that in the proposed league of 50% reduction in quality I quoted earlier – I was addressing that post, that is what I see an issue - continually stripping back the standard of rider on show and expecting crowd numbers to even remain the same, that evidently is not working - people are not going to swallow rubbish which would be the case if the standard of rider on show continues to decrease. The one big league you reference isn’t viable – there isn’t the numbers for that and if riders had such restrictions placed on them, and their earnings as those you wish to impose they would tell promotions in this country to run and jump or wish for a higher cost in order to compensate for potential loss of earnings all the while the issue would be the promotions would still require those riders to fill their team. I am not talking about the continent, paying excessive wages to the top stars in the world etc and so on – those days are clearly not viable, nor is it viable to simply put on a show of utter dross and expect fans to pay for it – there has to be some sort of standard on show in order to attract fans AND IN THE POST I QUOTED that isn’t what is being offered forward as a proposal - some of the points you have raised, made points and counter points to are clearly what you feel and think but they are totally moot to me and the post I have chosen to engage with.... I really am struggling to understand a lot of that. Your point of I quote... 'The minor changes would be in relation to where guests and replacements could be pulled from e.g sides chasing Play Off Places in the Premiership having to use replacements from the Championship if need be rather than riders from other teams in their league competing for the same place - a tightening of who could be used in such instances would help IMO.' How does that work?...a great majority of riders in the Prem are riding in the Championship ( doubling up )...so how do you propose to take riders from the Championship and place them in the Prem as a guest? That's what's happening already. You'd be left with a very small pool of riders to choose from, who aren't already doubling up. The majority of them, the lower end of the Championship level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hacksaw Jim Duggan 199 Posted August 17, 2017 I really am struggling to understand a lot of that. Your point of I quote... 'The minor changes would be in relation to where guests and replacements could be pulled from e.g sides chasing Play Off Places in the Premiership having to use replacements from the Championship if need be rather than riders from other teams in their league competing for the same place - a tightening of who could be used in such instances would help IMO.' How does that work?...a great majority of riders in the Prem are riding in the Championship ( doubling up )...so how do you propose to take riders from the Championship and place them in the Prem as a guest? That's what's happening already. You'd be left with a very small pool of riders to choose from, who aren't already doubling up. The majority of them, the lower end of the Championship level. Yes, that’s correct….it wasn’t the struggle you thought it was, you should give yourself more credit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frigbo 518 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) When doubling-up was limited we had a lot more journeyman foreign riders. I remember plenty of riders at Swindon who rode for a season or less, David Lampart, Krzysztof Stojanowski, Sergey Darkin, Manuel Hauzinger and I'm sure more I've forgotten. None of those doubled uo and were Swindon riders for the period they were in our team. The old shared position for doubling up was vaguely sensible in comparison to the utter farce that prevails now. I'm frankly shocked that there is a section of people on here who actually support what is virtually two leagues of the same riders mixed up and given different team names. No wonder the league gap has closed - they're almost the same blokes competing in both! Edited August 17, 2017 by frigbo 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted August 17, 2017 Yes, that’s correct….it wasn’t the struggle you thought it was, you should give yourself more credit. So you would propose for example...someone like Doyle, having to be guested if needed, by a rider from that small pool of riders not already doubling up? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hacksaw Jim Duggan 199 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) So you would propose for example...someone like Doyle, having to be guested if needed, by a rider from that small pool of riders not already doubling up? To my knowledge Jason Doyle isn’t a double up rider…..might have missed that though…. Edited August 17, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iainb 5,018 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) To my knowledge Jason Doyle isn’t a double up rider…..might have missed that though…. Only a matter of time at the current rate! Wouldn't it be nice for a rider to say no I'm not doubling up as I can't show the commitment that is needed to my club... But on the other hand promoters are very quick to drop riders not in form, so it works both ways, why should riders show commitment. I think it just shows what a total mess the game is in Edited August 17, 2017 by iainb Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted August 17, 2017 To my knowledge Jason Doyle isn’t a double up rider…..might have missed that though…. No...I think you missed the point completely What I'm asking...is that your idea seems to insinuate, that you would replace as a guest, a rider of Doyles calibre, with another rider from a small pool of riders in the Championship that aren't DU's. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hacksaw Jim Duggan 199 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) No...I think you missed the point completely What I'm asking...is that your idea seems to insinuate, that you would replace as a guest, a rider of Doyles calibre, with another rider from a small pool of riders in the Championship that aren't DU's. Emmm no....its a thread about doubling up riders where I was asked about the doubling up rule - why would I be talking about guests for Jason Doyle..... Edited August 17, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
brianbuck 928 Posted August 17, 2017 As we are being repeatedly told that there are numerous foreign riders who say that they would be willing to ride in this country "if there were fewer fixtures" might it be possible to compile a list of these who could then be used as an when required instead of guests? Do I think this is possible? No I don't for these would-be part-timers want to come here and ride as and when THEY please not when British clubs want to utilise them! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted August 17, 2017 Emmm no....its a thread about doubling up riders where I was asked about the doubling up rule - why would I be talking about guests for Jason Doyle..... See your post 139 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hacksaw Jim Duggan 199 Posted August 17, 2017 See your post 139 Again....a post in reply to a question about riders who double up where i answered talking about riders who double up - read that slow if it helps. Just to reiterate the only person talking about guests for Jason Doyle is you - an entirley different situation to the thread.... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gresham 928 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Again....a post in reply to a question about riders who double up where i answered talking about riders who double up - read that slow if it helps. Just to reiterate the only person talking about guests for Jason Doyle is you - an entirley different situation to the thread.... Kinnel... Read what you quoted... quote... 'The minor changes would be in relation to where GUESTS and replacements could be pulled from e.g sides chasing Play Off Places in the Premiership having to use replacements from the Championship if need be rather than riders from other teams in their league competing for the same place - a tightening of who could be used in such instances would help IMO.' I've got more chance of deciphering hieroglyphics, than trying to work out your English grammar. Edited August 17, 2017 by Gresham Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hacksaw Jim Duggan 199 Posted August 17, 2017 (edited) Yes guests used in relation to doubling up....you know the subject of the thread - the thing being spoken about on the thread - the thing i was talking about in the post you quoted You cant actually be this stupid can you? Actually dont answer that - in fact dont reply at all - i cant lower myself to your idiocy any longer it hurts my brain engaging with you. Edited August 17, 2017 by Hacksaw Jim Duggan Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
