Peterborough Panthers 2023

[Crump99 4,476]

2 hours ago, Bald Bloke said:

but i suspect the offer, if made, might be ridiculous, and  rent related. Making it not viable anyway. But they can say they tried but the sport is not viable.

I think that you're right and that is something that we've got to argue against. AEPG will argue that the site is underused now that they've mugged everybody off and they never used the site to its full potential anyway. I'm sure that when the East of England Agricultural Society got in to bed with AEPG they didn't expect their legacy to be a toxic one, which is something different from that which the developer try to sell on their tin: "we leave a legacy of which all parties can be proud" - Peterborough City Council will never get over, be forgiven, or be proud getting rid of Peterborough Speedway from the city.

As for the rent though, because we're inconvenient, they've wrecked the EoES and don't want to offer any help, especially financial (ie subsidise a community facility) their strategy allegedly will be for a break even rent which is clearly ridiculous.

However, that does not get them out of their responsibilities under LP30. Hopefully PCC don't buy the guff that AEPG may have submitted to already (and we've yet to see I'm believe) to get them out of their responsibilities.

It's worrying that Butterfield is quoted as saying: “We are working with the Speedway fans and owners but we understand the disappointment that the speedway is moving from Peterborough.” - when nothing has been approved. Peterborough Speedway in not moving anywhere if the planning is rejected and PCC are not hoodwinked over LP30.

[pleasureboy60 123]

3 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

I think that you're right and that is something that we've got to argue against. AEPG will argue that the site is underused now that they've mugged everybody off and they never used the site to its full potential anyway. I'm sure that when the East of England Agricultural Society got in to bed with AEPG they didn't expect their legacy to be a toxic one, which is something different from that which the developer try to sell on their tin: "we leave a legacy of which all parties can be proud" - Peterborough City Council will never get over, be forgiven, or be proud getting rid of Peterborough Speedway from the city.

As for the rent though, because we're inconvenient, they've wrecked the EoES and don't want to offer any help, especially financial (ie subsidise a community facility) their strategy allegedly will be for a break even rent which is clearly ridiculous.

However, that does not get them out of their responsibilities under LP30. Hopefully PCC don't buy the guff that AEPG may have submitted to already (and we've yet to see I'm believe) to get them out of their responsibilities.

It's worrying that Butterfield is quoted as saying: “We are working with the Speedway fans and owners but we understand the disappointment that the speedway is moving from Peterborough.” - when nothing has been approved. Peterborough Speedway in not moving anywhere if the planning is rejected and PCC are not hoodwinked over LP30.

If by some miracle, planning application is refused and speedway is allowed to carry on. I can imagine AEPG will hike up the rent  for the track to a level whereby we can't afford it. I don't trust them an inch and if they don't get their own way, ie planning permission, then I imagine there will be some angry shareholders looking to blame speedway as the bad guys

 

[Crump99 4,476]

30 minutes ago, Flappy said:

Club press release saying penultimate meeting, the club needs to fight this with the fans and not lay down and die 

I do wish they wouldn't sell it like that, that's very very irritating and not needed. Everyone knows what's going on and most fans and others are fighting against that. If we have to suffer the last ever PR for Kings Lynn I don't think I'll bother. A speedway requiem isn't my idea of fun night. It's like watching Jason Crump riding for Kings Lynn or Ipswich which I never did either.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Crump99

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

5 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

I do wish they wouldn't sell it like that, that's very very irritating and not needed. Everyone knows what's going on and most fans and others are fighting against that. If we have to suffer the last ever PR for Kings Lynn I don't think I'll bother. A speedway requiem isn't my idea of fun night. It's like watching Jason Crump riding for Kings Lynn or Ipswich which I never did either.

For once we agree - made me feel sick seeing Crump in a Witches racesuit too 

[Crump99 4,476]

Just now, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

For once we agree - made me feel sick seeing Crump in a Witches racesuit too 

You didn't get Jason Crump though, that was only an imitation of the real thing who graced the EoES on Friday evenings in the red and black

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv 10,706]

3 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

You didn't get Jason Crump though, that was only an imitation of the real thing who graced the EoES on Friday evenings in the red and black

True and I liked him even less 

[crazyb 156]

53 minutes ago, Flappy said:

Club press release saying penultimate meeting, the club needs to fight this with the fans and not lay down and die 

They're scared to say anything in case the lights are turned off. That's what was said on Thursday. Ridiculous

[Crump99 4,476]

46 minutes ago, pleasureboy60 said:

If by some miracle, planning application is refused and speedway is allowed to carry on. I can imagine AEPG will hike up the rent  for the track to a level whereby we can't afford it. I don't trust them an inch and if they don't get their own way, ie planning permission, then I imagine there will be some angry shareholders looking to blame speedway as the bad guys

 

It could certainly start a house of cards because "the sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval"; AEPG are only the current promoter contracted by the East of England Agricultural society so that could go sour; and Peterborough City Council could be stung by the opposition to this unwanted/unpopular development and decide against a concrete jungle in favour of a proper culture, leisure, tourism and community facility for the city and its population that they are rumoured to represent.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Crump99

[crazyb 156]

41 minutes ago, Crump99 said:

I think that you're right and that is something that we've got to argue against. AEPG will argue that the site is underused now that they've mugged everybody off and they never used the site to its full potential anyway. I'm sure that when the East of England Agricultural Society got in to bed with AEPG they didn't expect their legacy to be a toxic one, which is something different from that which the developer try to sell on their tin: "we leave a legacy of which all parties can be proud" - Peterborough City Council will never get over, be forgiven, or be proud getting rid of Peterborough Speedway from the city.

As for the rent though, because we're inconvenient, they've wrecked the EoES and don't want to offer any help, especially financial (ie subsidise a community facility) their strategy allegedly will be for a break even rent which is clearly ridiculous.

However, that does not get them out of their responsibilities under LP30. Hopefully PCC don't buy the guff that AEPG may have submitted to already (and we've yet to see I'm believe) to get them out of their responsibilities.

It's worrying that Butterfield is quoted as saying: “We are working with the Speedway fans and owners but we understand the disappointment that the speedway is moving from Peterborough.” - when nothing has been approved. Peterborough Speedway in not moving anywhere if the planning is rejected and PCC are not hoodwinked over LP30.

I have missed seeing who this chap Butterfield is. What does he do and who for

[Crump99 4,476]

1 hour ago, crazyb said:

I have missed seeing who this chap Butterfield is. What does he do and who for

https://www.aepguk.com/ (East of England Agricultural Society's current contracted promoter at the Showground)

Speedway          (from Peterborough Telegraph)

“We have worked really closely with the Speedway team and Speedway owners,” Ashley added as the Panthers get set to leave the grandstand.

“We’ve been in consultation and open dialogue and have been transparent about the plans and the future.

“They have known for many years that the site is earmarked for development and ultimately they would need to move location and find a new home.

“We actually extended the period for them to include this season and we managed to push that through and work closely with them to achieve that, so there’s a huge amount of collaboration and support there.

“We are working with the Speedway fans and owners but we understand the disappointment that the speedway is moving from Peterborough.”

General comments:

• Peterborough Panthers speedway team informed in 2022 that the 2023 season would sadly have to be their last in the Showground grandstand, as that area is expected to be under different ownership by the time the 2024 Speedway season begins.

• Sale of the land is expected to be approved by Spring 2024, again subject to planning approval.
• The spades-in-the-ground date is still unclear until the planning committee decides. Plans are at the outline planning stage now, which will be referred to several more stages of detailed back-and-forth, no doubt, before anything can physically go ahead. 

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Crump99

[OldNutter 48]

2 hours ago, crazyb said:

I have missed seeing who this chap Butterfield is. What does he do and who for

Just losing this application(s) will not settle this.  If this application fails, they will have two options, they can appeal to the Secretary of State to overrule the council or they can opt to make some changes and hit the go button again, or both.  Butterfield seems to be essentially a  one-man-band who has managed some of those "health" clubs we are looking to get if he wins. with a convincing manner and not a lot else, other than a bunch of mates who want to follow him scrumping  in the property magic money tree orchard.  AEPG is a front that holds the operating company taken over from the Agricultural Society.  AEPG has only got one director and assets of £1 according to Companies House.  The operating company now only has two directors, Butterfield and a mate who is apparently the new CEO.  The rest of the people who appear on the web page of AEPG are the groups, consultants and finance people who have put this dreadful application together.  The money for the first part, while they wait for the cash flood to start once Phase One is built, comes from one of these so called partners in the form of a mortgage, thought to be somewhere around 400m -ish.

Because the planning system is normally all a forgone conclusion, the mortgage would have been quite a reasonable bet when the package was put together so if the house of cards collapses, somebody is going to be in deep dodoo for a very long time.  That said, and with that threat looming, the normal outcome is that we will see things getting very dirty.  So even if we win this time, there will be a huge incentive to return using every trick in the planning play-book and the making money play-book, so be prepared.

[Crump99 4,476]

14 hours ago, OldNutter said:

Just losing this application(s) will not settle this.  If this application fails, they will have two options, they can appeal to the Secretary of State to overrule the council or they can opt to make some changes and hit the go button again, or both.  Butterfield seems to be essentially a  one-man-band who has managed some of those "health" clubs we are looking to get if he wins. with a convincing manner and not a lot else, other than a bunch of mates who want to follow him scrumping  in the property magic money tree orchard.  AEPG is a front that holds the operating company taken over from the Agricultural Society.  AEPG has only got one director and assets of £1 according to Companies House.  The operating company now only has two directors, Butterfield and a mate who is apparently the new CEO.  The rest of the people who appear on the web page of AEPG are the groups, consultants and finance people who have put this dreadful application together.  The money for the first part, while they wait for the cash flood to start once Phase One is built, comes from one of these so called partners in the form of a mortgage, thought to be somewhere around 400m -ish.

Because the planning system is normally all a forgone conclusion, the mortgage would have been quite a reasonable bet when the package was put together so if the house of cards collapses, somebody is going to be in deep dodoo for a very long time.  That said, and with that threat looming, the normal outcome is that we will see things getting very dirty.  So even if we win this time, there will be a huge incentive to return using every trick in the planning play-book and the making money play-book, so be prepared.

Indeed my local councillor said that it will go through on the nod, which most such proposals no doubt do; and you can see from much of the PR that the preparatory work has gone on behind the scenes and the planning committee would be expected to just tick a box. However, they don't usually get significant objections, bad publicity and close scrutiny of process and decision making. AEPG certainly don't want that and PCC certainly don't want to justify losing Peterborough Speedway to the city for some future development that will allegedly provide a community facility of greater value, serving more of the community for more of the time (they could make a complex used 365 days of the year incorporating Peterborough Speedway and the Arena, so not viable through lack of use is a weak argument) which provides improved services and facilities for a diverse proportion of the community.

It's important to keep the pressure on and not give them all that easy ride due to apathy.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Crump99

[Mick Bratley 474]

Great news we’ve smashed through 700 we now have 707 objections keep it going folks. I want 1000. For context the new football stadium was shelved with 6 (SIX) objections.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Mick Bratley

[crazyb 156]

3 hours ago, Crump99 said:

Indeed my local councillor said that it will go through on the nod, which most such proposals no doubt do; and you can see from much of the PR that the preparatory work has gone on behind the scenes and the planning committee would be expected to just tick a box. However, they don't usually get significant objections, bad publicity and close scrutiny of process and decision making. AEPG certainly don't want that and PCC certainly don't want to justify losing Peterborough Speedway to the city for some future development that will allegedly provide a community facility of greater value, serving more of the community for more of the time (they could make a complex used 365 days of the year incorporating Peterborough Speedway and the Arena, so not viable through lack of use is a weak argument) which provides improved services and facilities for a diverse proportion of the community.

It's important to keep the pressure on and not give them all that easy ride due to apathy.

All the PCC councillors should have been invited last Thursday or tonight or against Lynn whenever it's raced 

[JoeW436 595]

Starting to think Busters been paid off, shocking attitude towards the effort trying to save the sport in the town.

Edited September 11, 2023 by JoeW436