BWitcher

Agreed.. and that's why it's never going to happen or work.

Every time Sidney claims he doesn't judge riders by how many races they win you 'like' his posts. Every time Sidney refuses to accept that the size of the league dictates how many heat leaders there are you 'like' his post. It's not a difficult concept. I've for some time been against the merging of leagues but we are past the point of salvation now for a top flight, or indeed any level of league it seems. Perhaps the only way out of this is to go with a big league, create more heat leaders, create more 'top guys' who don't lose very often and generate excitement when teams visit with a No 1 who doesn't get beat often and you will only get to see at your track once that season.

You judge riders by how many races they win. End of story. Anyone who tries to claim differently is talking absolute nonsense. Now you can apply different criteria and importance to particular races or events but the simple reality is, the more you see a rider win, the better you will naturally think they are. Nowhere is there someone claiming a rider was brilliant who comes last every race.

Averages is irrelevant. The rest of your post is my entire point! That's entirely due to a large league. A smaller league you're seeing the riders much more often, and they are beating each other more often.. it's simply natural they don't have that mystique about them as you're seeing them lose a lot more regularly. Remember, the real 'top' boys will still be the top boys.. but the second and third heat leaders won't appear as good. Another way of putting it.. a fan just watching GP racing would think Craig Cook and Chris Harris are garbage.. a fan watching Craig Cook for Edinburgh over the years thinks he's brilliant.

Yes you do and it absolutely ridiculous to suggest otherwise. That's how all riders are judged. When riders win the majority of their races they are considered great riders. The less they win, the less great they are considered. I'd love to hear how you and Steve Roberts 'judge' riders if it's not based on how often they win. Strangely you've never listed any riders whom you classed as 'world class' who didn't do the exact thing which you say you don't judge riders on...

Not again. If those top boys were riding in the same format as now they wouldn't be as revered. Why? Because they'd be facing each other and other riders near their level far more often, getting beat on a much more regular basis. Just as they do in Poland.. which is where you need to make the comparison. Nobody is saying the best riders are in the UK anymore.

I'm confused by this too. Stood in the stand on the back straight every time and never walked up a grassy bank? You go through the turnstile, along the back of the stand and choose from one of numerous 'entry' points?

Chunky makes a good point. The other major aspect of a bigger league is it simply creates more 'stars'. The bigger the league, the more heat leaders there are and the less often you see the top riders in the league beaten.. which adds to their 'mystique' and makes you want to see them when they visit.

It's not the racing.. it's all about perception. Formula One is awful racing.. but look at the popularity and the glamour.

Perhaps because the thread wasn't about praising Belle Vue, it was about "Most unfortunate team", to which I added further information to Moxey's post. The thread only went a bit silly when Grand Central tried to make the ridiculous assertion that the absence of Ermolenko didn't mean anything. It meant everything, as the collapse of the Wolves lower end showed. That's not a knock on Belle Vue, quite the opposite, it's stating that certain Wolves riders couldn't rise to the occasion without the presence of their talismanic captain... whereas Belle Vue did.

Exactly, Belle Vue won, you don't feel anything less about the victory because the other side had injuries/bad luck or whatever it might be and rightfully so. That's sport.. the ecstasy of victory, the agony of defeat. Wolves lost that night, but I'm so glad I was there to experience it. This is why I enjoy the play-offs so much, it's the closest thing to replicating it.

Where have I been a sore loser? It wasn't meant to be for Wolves that season. Belle Vue scored the most pts and won the league. Simples. All I have done is agreed with Moxey and stated that above and beyond the injuries the absence of Ermolenko for that meeting was a major factor. Just as the absence of Nielsen would have been had Oxford had a match of similar importance and scale.

Never up for discussion, it was an amazing night and as a Belle Vue fan would have been unbelievable. Doesn't change the facts you are wrong about the impact Ermolenko not being there had. Note.. it wasn't even just he was injured, it was he was not there, lying in a hospital bed. Belle Vue took advantage and rose to the occasion. There are no sour grapes here like you are trying to insinuate.

Which shows you have absolutely no idea about the topic discussed. Indeed the points you made only further highlighted and boosted the point I made.

I think you've completely missed the point. At that time Ermolenko improved the performance of every single rider in the side, especially the lesser ones. The reserves wouldn't have been psyched out had he been there. He was that good and that much of a captain in those days. Not only that, but his mere presence would have intimidated Belle Vue, his absence gave them a massive boost.

Very good points. It's also why the absence of Ermolenko on that night was so critical, not just for his on track riding, he literally WAS Wolverhampton at the time and his presence alone was worth 4-6pts extra across the team with the way he inspired other riders.

We also lost one of our reserves to injury in that same short time period you mentioned and had to promote a junior rider.

Stephen Morris was the rider in question I believe... I think Wainwright had already been excluded in the first running of the heat. Although the memory may be playing tricks! It was a huge crowd and great atmosphere.. if only we could relive something similar.

Just a quick add on to Moxey's excellent post. Some may be thinking, so they lost a few riders, no big deal. The difference that season was guests were only allowed for your No 1 rider, which of course was Sam Ermolenko. Where the league was really lost was a 2pt home defeat against Ipswich when we had a side of Sam Ermolenko, Peter Karlsson, Neil Evitts (riding injured and woefully out of form and confidence) RR and four juniors. Sam rattled off a 21pt max, PK may have got a max too, or close to it, but it wasn't enough. Shane Parker decided to goad the Wolves crowd after the meeting celebrating wildly and became somewhat unpopular to say the least. That said my opinion of Parker changed a few years later when we held a fund raising event for PK, Parker came along and was brilliant. He's a bit handy at Laserquest! The Ermolenko crash in Heat 1 against Bradford had more ramifications as it meant we didn't get the bonus pt that match which would have won us the league that night if I remember correctly.

I'd suggest lazy parenting also comes into it. Far more parents these days instead of engaging with their kids and taking them to places like speedway, just let them sit on their consoles/phones etc and do their own thing binge watching Netflix.

I know. And when you have to pay to get in, blimey the difference it makes.. for some.

Christ.. if you really want to kill the sport of, the above is a sure fire way to do it. As for the racing, you just simply don't remember all the tapes to flags and strung out racing in years gone by.

Which is why I can't class him (as some do) as one of the very best ever. Certainly up there on tracks that suited.. but for me, the very best rode EVERY track at a very high standard. That's not a knock on Gollob, one of the most entertaining riders of all time.. just that he's a level below the Nielsens, Rickardssons, Olsens, Maugers etc

Hello again DropaCog, FredFlange, FledFlange, Thunderbird2 and others.

That's the entire point. You cut the quality and leave the price the same (or indeed increase it) the result is less customers. That is the case in ANY business, yet that is all speedway has done for a long time now. It's simply a slow death. An attitude of focus only on retaining current customers is also a sure fire way to kill the sport. The current supporters are an aging fan base. ALL sports lose fans as they grow older.. however, they work hard to replace them. I agree with many points in the post, but not focusing on the current fan base.. the current fan base is the biggest killer of the sport.