mikebv

Fancy running a business where your main competitors are allowed to tell you when you can open? So they can then use your employees... Only in Speedway.. Edit: British Speedway... Thank goodness it is ran so brilliantly, as if it wasn't ran so brilliantly I could actually see a day when it might end up struggling...

100 % correct.. When I stopped going regularly, invariably due to reading about the Mickey Mouse proceedings being proposed to be placed in front of me, I do now accept that it was my duty to provide a 'Guest' for my absence, or at the very least I should have let Speedway use 'F/R' (the Fan Replacement Facilty).. On behalf of myself and probably thousands of others who now longer attend in the frequency we once did... Apologies.. It is our fault the Sport in this Country is where it is...

But if they do that then Rye House should surely have been allowed to move to Saturdays..? But then again, This is British Speedway so you never know...

Chickens coming home to roost?

So (if true) either the 2nd or 3rd teams get the chance to run an extra money spinning meeting that the top team doesn't? I would suggest that this would be tangibly worth more to clubs than actually winning a Competition that (because of the way it is operated) hardly anyone will care about. .. To be honest, given the current situation, when I read 'End Of Year Play Offs To Change' I expected to read that they had been changed to the end of July...

You know that.... Many others know that.... But will the Ego of some Promoters accept that? I am not too sure... Taking 'Selfies' and filling your Facebook pages with you alongside International Speedway riders is very important to some..... Looking at the general average crowd to matches I have attend this season in the Prem, I would suggest about (max) 1200 is ball park... After VAT that gets you around £17,000 at £18 entry.. Take off £3k (maybe more?), for the running costs and that would leave around £14k to pay your seven riders two meetings worth of money. (Or £7k a night).. You may make a few quid on Car Park, Programmes, Food and Drink and have some Sponsorship to boost the coffers.. Bottom line is £7k a night per team is simply too much to pay out and £18 is too high a price to pay in... Drop the admission to £15 and spend £5k a night and you may have a fighting chance... If you can find seven riders to ride for £5k then run seven man teams.. If you can only find six or five riders to ride for £5k then run six or five man teams... The standard just needs to be relatively equal.. It doesn't need to be World Class.. Just competitive..

Cheers for the comment Dean... Not difficult to suggest 'simple' ideas when you have so many fundamental issues wrong though to be fair.. One that always truly amazes me is when promoters and fans say that there are not enough riders to cover all the team slots yet they still persist in running seven positions per team... And therefore paying out seven wages that not many it appears can actually afford... In my business if my sales don't meet my forecast expectations I have to reduce hours as my wage budget % is fixed, and therefore based on the sales performance level.. If I exceed my forecast then I can increase hours as my sterling spend capability naturally increases.. Therefore basic business logic would suggest that if you cannot afford to pay 14 people per night, then DONT EMPLOY 14 PEOPLE PER NIGHT!!.... And definitely if you cannot afford to spend more than £5k per night on your employees then DONT SPEND MORE THAN £5K PER NIGHT ON YOUR EMPLOYEES!!.... In the real world you forecast your sales, set the budget spend which will provide you with the required profit return, and then produce an ever evolving and improving operating model to deliver this profit.. Maybe British Speedway should run itself on those 'very, very basic' lines...?

You run an entertainment buisness at the weekend and it is going 'quite well'... Therefore, you close down the weekend opening times and instead opt to open on Wednesday evenings.. Amazingly you don't take the same amount of income and actually start bringing in less. . Who would have been able to predict that?

Think it's been a triple whammy for Rye... Last season they had the novelty value of riding in the top league after decades riding in the lower leagues which would have brought a few extra in... Lakeside going 'Div 3' also had a positive impact to Rye's crowds from reading comments from Lakeside fans on here who were travelling to Rye each week. Now Lakeside are in 'Div 2' have their fans gone back? Then obviously the change of race night... Going from THE best night to run an entertainment business to a mid week schedule... A shame they couldn't get their Saturday night back, if only to keep them going and prevent the abject embarrassment and image impact to the Sport in this country that comes with teams pulling out of Leagues..

Not a problem... Just let riders guest for the other team they are riding against... Sorted...

Is Billy Smart still going?

One big league of about nine teams...

I would think the figures stack up Dean, three heat leaders alone must cost circa 5k per team as a minimum currently... Another positive to be added would be that EVERY match would have something riding on it rather than the current 'season over' for several teams when the play offs are out of reach.. It will also engender some team spirit I would suggest as it truly would be Performance Related Pay.. Lose and you get your 'basic'. Win and you get double... I would think that this would focus the attention of the riders to the team score rather than just their own total. With possibly the usual, "Do you think you can still win this?" "I don't know what's the score?" Interviews becoming more of a rarity.. If they could get the team strengths right then there would also be a good few riders 'on the bench' to bring in both for injuries and loss of form which can only be good to ensure competition for places. (Like other sports)... Sky paid over a million a season didn't they? The Sport certainly kept that quite when it should have shouted it from the roof tops... To 'hype up' your business doesn't have to cost thousands, just some inspiration and innovation..

So much of what generates a crowd these days is down to great marketing and hype.. I have mentioned before the differences between the PDC and the BDO in darts.. Two organisations in the same 'sport'... The result? One very, very successful, and the other woefully inadequate trying desperately to keep up, and failing miserably.. Speedway on any given meeting in the Premiership must pay out for 14 riders around £15,000 (or maybe even more?)... Not bad 'prize money' for a very small minority sport. Figures that, I suggest, would surprise many non Speedway followers if they were informed of it.... Therefore, how about a different spin on this £15,000..? Change the word 'wages' and replace it with 'Prize Money', with cheques being given post match to the team captains during an interview... 5 man teams.... A top League of 12 clubs, therefore 60 riders needed.. £15,000 up for grabs EVERY meeting... £10,000 to the winner, £5,000 to the loser... Home and Away twice would deliver 44 matches per team ex play offs.. Let's use a utopian vision and say every home team wins every match.... That would mean over 44 matches, each club would have 'won' £330,000 (£220,000 at home and £110,000 away) with each rider therefore averaging £1500 per meeting, meaning the average rider would earn £66,000 per year, ex play offs.. The reality will be of course some riders will earn more as their deals are better and some will earn less, as will the Clubs as there are bound to be away wins, however... After VAT, at £15 a pop, a 1500 crowd would deliver £18,000... Leaving £3,000 to pay the rent and operating costs (supplemented hopefully by Sponsorship, and profit if applicable on Car Park fees, bar take and programmes sales)... The standard for me would be teams made up at a level of Two current Premiership Heat Leaders. Two Championship Heat Leaders and a Championship Second String making up the fifth man.. Five man teams would also give a surplus of riders to cover short term and long term absences without the need for Gue.. Gu.. G (I can't even type it), and negate rider replacement... The overall 'Prize Fund' (ex play offs) from a total of 264 matches would be an incredible £3,960,000!! With the obvious proviso being of course, could you get 1500 to watch a sport that was now ran with credibilty, with similar standard teams, on nights when crowds could be best generated? I reckon you should be able to sell any Sport that offers a 'Prize Fund' of nearly £4M (not including play offs) to any prospective Sponsor or Media outlet as a very credible and popular Sport! And the beauty of course is clubs are paying this kind of money out every night now but without anyone knowing it, and gaining any publicity for themselves by doing it.. Could it work? Who knows, maybe they could get BT onside to show every team once at home and they match the 'Prize Fund' for that meeting meaning £30,000 on offer that night? British Speedway pays out literally MILLIONS of pounds to riders each season... SO. SHOUT ABOUT IT. LET THE BRITISH PUBLIC KNOW!!! And maybe, just maybe, they will start to get interested? (Or at worse, CURIOUS)...

Take your point Steve, but when Speedway in Britain was in its 'pomp' in the 70's, it sold itself.. The likes of PC, Jessup, Lee, Louis, Ashby, Simmons, Morton, Kennett, Davis et al were all regularly on TV doing their stuff (often for a successful England) on a Saturday afternoon, with their exploits covered by one of just three TV channels.. This meant the Leagues very much benefited by association.. The Sport in the country desperately needs an overall talisman on which they can push into the mainstream.. Tai is without a doubt the best known Speedway rider in Britain amongst non Speedway fans due to his various National TV and Radio exposure.. British Speedway needs to push him as a collective and hope his presence rubs off and increases awareness (and ultimately fans) across the board..

Speedway will soon be announcing the crowd changes rather than the rider ones... What level of 'Guest' replacement can you get for Jenga? Or will a SR facilty be granted? (Supporter Replacement)

For me, the fundamental issue that must be sorted is that far too many Promoters see it as a hobby in which they can chuck away a few quid and maybe even (who knows?) get a few tax breaks from their other business interests by investing in a loss making business... Years ago many, if not most, Promoters were business men who worked together (in the main), to generate a bit of overall return for the whole of the Sport, knowing that their own individual business would ultimately profit from a thriving League.. Sometimes it seemed a bit 'somewhat contrived', however, never the less, the fans lapped it up and everyone from Promoters, fans and riders seemed happy, and more importantly the sport was 'successful'.. Nowadays it seems everyone is out for themselves, trying desperately to put one over their rivals, all in an effort to win Leagues hardly anyone in their respective fan bases gives two tosses about such is the nonsense way the Sport is ran in Britain.. What they appear to fail to see is that without any 'rivals' their own business also disappears.... Maybe one day, someone will notice the impending 'meltdown' that is happening in front of them and do something to prevent it..?

When Woofy rides like that he makes it look effortless... The pass on Doyle was sublime... When you are that good you almost instinctively know where your opponent is putting his bike so you can put your bike in a position to pass him. He looks 'seconds' in front of the other riders in thought.. The best British rider I have seen since PC at making a hugely difficult skill in passing a rider look so effortless. (And there is no higher praise than that for me).. Just a shame (and almost criminal), that, without any doubt potentially one of the greatest overall Speedway riders of all time, (and possibly this year the best British rider ever when it comes to WC titles), isn't being used by British Speedway to promote their domestic Leagues.. Building the Sport over here around him wouldn't be a bad idea I would suggest.. He ticks a lot of demographic boxes to encourage a younger audience given his age and image..

I remember one Promoter saying that the 'Sky Money' ultimately "paid for the No1"... As it was circa £100k per track a season not a bad little earner for the man who invariably meant his team had to use Guests when he was often riding somewhere else rather than at his own teams' track..! A resounding success of a Business and Operating Model if ever there was one.... Edit: And when tracks paid this money to ten or so 'top riders', crowds still dwindled at an alarming rate...

The compound issue the sport now has is that the likes of those riders you mention, and others, have become '"No1's" with certain salary expectations. . Bring back the 'top riders' and the current "No1's" wont be too keen on dropping their salaries I would suggest.. In fact, without the 'top riders' being over here a great many riders have 'moved up a place' in their respective teams (with the naturally improved salary that comes with it too I would have thought).. Bringing back the 'top riders' would move a lot of riders down a level, eg the current "No1's" will drop down, heats leaders drop to second strings, second strings drop to reserve. And I am not sure many will be too pleased with the change in package that goes with it (nor accept it).. The bottom line is there must be some salary inflation that has occurred, for all riders, since the 'top riders' have departed in droves, therefore bringing them back and adding their salaries to the current mix would be an almost impossible thought for many clubs I would suggest.. And if clubs are struggling now with a circa £18 attendance fee seemingly proving to be very dissuasive for so many, how much would they need to charge to cover a 'top riders' wages on top of their current expenditure.?

A World Class No1 'top rider' would cost around £3k a night (and maybe more if you listen to some in the Sport).. That means a track would have to find £6k from each home meeting for the two matches he rides home and away.. At £18 an adult to get in, each punter minus the VAT would generate £14.40... That means you need 416 punters through the gate just to pay for him.. With some clubs running meetings in front of not many more than 600 in total, that would leave not much over £2500 to pay the other six riders for TWO meetings... Some serious sponsorship needed to pay for that 'top rider' I would suggest as long gone are the days when any 'top rider' puts a tangible 500 or so 'extra' on the attendance..

Bring the big names back and that will increase the crowds .. Brilliant... How much would it cost to get in then? Or would we keep the same admission fee and run three man teams? Three man teams that run every fifth Monday and every third Thursday of the summer to accomodate all the No1's collective Global itinerary...

The sport is knackered... By allowing Wednesday night racing they effectively went down the 'half arsed' road.. Allowing Saturday night racing just extends the road a little bit more.. The hole they have dug is huge.. Someone needs to temporarily fill it in a bit to help someone climb out and get saved.. And if Belle Vue want to ride Friday let them. You will have more attending a 'guestfest' on that night than will attend two full teams on a Monday.. Having 'some matches' guest free rather than 'lots of matches' with guests is not really an improvement that anyone should measure as a success.. You cannot be 'a little bit pregnant' nor can you run a Professional Sport with 'a little bit of credibilty'... It's all or nothing... There really is no point in losing a club just to follow an inherently flawed, unfit for purpose Operating Model.. Time to do what they can to get everyone to the end of the season and start again with a better plan next year..

Even though Britain's nights allocated were Monday and Thursday some teams kept the huge benefit of riding on their own usual nights and stayed racing Wednesdays which wasn't the actual agreement with the rest of the Leagues... Beacuse as everyone knows, Wednesday is Denmarks night... Why shouldn't Rye House therefore be able to ride on their usual night of Satuday, (Poland's and FIM's night)? By their actions we now have Guestfests on a Wednesday? So just have more Guestfests on a Saturday... What difference does it really make if it saves a club?

I liken British Speedways problems to the British Superbikes series' predicament in the early nineties.... When Carl Fogarty was in his pomp and Sky fell in love with the World Superbikes series, giving it the massive exposure which resulted in 'Foggy' becoming a well known sportsman across all mainstream sport followers. BSB didnt try and compete. How could it? WSB had the best riders, BSB had the next level down. But instead of trying to match the WSB they ensured they delivered a great weekend of racing with the calibre of rider that they had which then grew their own 'brand'... They also realised that inevitably their best would eventually go off to seek fame and fortune in the WSB or Moto GP and test themselves in the 'higher standard' of racing. Therefore BSB invested in plenty of track time over their race weekends for the next generation of riders. With standard 'out of the box' one make Championships included to keep costs down and attract 'entry level' riders in.. The result? Thousands still attend their race weekends and plenty of British lads have made succesful careers racing at no more than a 'domestic' level.. If the likes of Dan and Robert can earn vast amounts elsewhere and improve quicker by racing against the Worlds best then good luck to them. 100% let them ride in the 'WSB' that is Poland.. However any rider wanting to ride in the 'BSB' of British Speedway needs to understand that British Speedway, and that alone, is his priority.. British Speedway has two options... Run itself like a 'proper team sport' on days and nights it's fan base can attend, paying for itself from an income delivered via a price point the fan base sees as value for money, and be as radical in delivering this as they need to be.. Or... Carry on doing what it always has.... And we know how tremendously successful that has been... The current model simply does not work and is miles away from what they need.. And as is blatantly obvious. The sport is down to the bare bones of its fan base.. Opening Friday and Saturday nights, and Sunday days, are a one million percent fundamental necessity for any business running in the entertainment sector, which is unsurprisingly why Poland (and Motor Racing in general) choose them! (How strange?!).... Simple choice... Find a way to use the weekends more, and let all tracks run on nights they know will get their biggest income... Or.... Carry on cobbling together Mickey Mouse Team Speedway meetings in front of an ever reducing fan base, running the meetings on days/nights to suit the riders but not their customers, at a far too high a price point for those customers to recognise it as value for money. I would humbly suggest that if they keep doing the latter, it can really only end one way..