olddon

I think this should be a closed debate now. It was supposed to be a forthcoming article by Ian Hoskins in a copy of 'Classic Speedway' before Christmas 2011. However, the debate is still going strongly in this section. For all the latest comments I suggest you look as follows Years Gone By History of Speedway, including defunct tracks, famous riders, classic meetings. Maitland Speedway Anniversary JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

New Zealand has three regular bike tracks that staged about 30 meetings all season. Speedway New Zealand actually licences 24 tracks and obviously the majority are car racing venues. Let's hope the forthcoming GP is a success and sparks a bike speedway revival. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Do a google search for Gisborne Speedway New Zealand. They do have a website and you might get the results from there or find a track contact who can help. Didn't they appear in 'Speedway Star' at the time? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Besides Johnnie Hoskins' influence in regard to Maitland in 1923, there is substantial evidence in his writings that he played a key role in popularising speedway on the USA's East Coast in 1933. Johnnie was a major figure in getting speedway organised at the Brooklyn Stadium, Coney Island, that year. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

The important thing to note in regard to Ian Hoskins'post is his acceptance that there had previously been forms of motorcycle track racing in the USA and Australia. But Ian then emphasises that what Johnnie Hoskins promoted at Maitland in December 1923 was an upgraded style of track motorcycle racing with broadsiding and anti-clockwise competition which was to prove to be the template for the development of speedway. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

This topic had an airing in 2006 on the New Zealand site at http://www.historicspeedway.co.nz/ This is Ian Hoskins comments in reply to the start of speedway debate: “Further to your excellent article on the alleged origins of speedway racing, I thank you for allowing me the right of reply. I agree that various new 'historians' of the sport have felt it would gain them credit if they could debunk the story that speedway, as we know it today, truly began under my father's banner at West Maitland, NSW, Australia on Sunday, December 15th 1923. “I agree that there were previous isolated motor cycle events that occurred earlier than this in Australia and even America. At least the historians have to be congratulated on their research into newspaper files. But, we may as well go back as far as the Circus Maximus in ancient Rome, where chariot racing was staged before factions of thousands of devoted supporters, who cheered their favorites on to victory in races that were likewise held in an anti-clockwise direction and had chariots broadsiding on the corners. “Unfortunately for these scribes, none of the events they have dug out from the files, led anywhere. Whereas, Johnnie Hoskins was the first promoter to put up a cash reward for the winner at West Maitland, and from the huge turn-out this novel event generated, speedway began to form in Maitland with a cinder track, rules and regulations, and the broadsiding of bikes in the corners. No previous event inspired such a metamorphosis as this. Finally, there was professionalism in speedway, the rider could live from his earnings on the track, and men such as Ron Johnson, Billy Lamont and Vic Huxley, willingly left Australia to try their luck in England in l928.” JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I know Jim Blanchard will be pleased to see that I have found another version of 'Marching Along Together'. It's not as good as the Jack Hylton/Al Bowlly version. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I think I am banned there! JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Posted by JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT Taken from a USA website: WHAT: 36th Annual World Championship Ice Racing Series Grand Finale WHERE: Cambria County War Memorial - Johnstown, PA WHEN: Saturday Night February 4th at 7:30PM WHO: World's Top Professional Indoor Ice Racers WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP MOTORCYCLE ICE RACING FINALE THIS WEEKEND AT CAMBRIA COUNTY WAR MEMORIAL ARENA The stage is now set for what could be the most exciting and dramatic conclusion to a World Championship ice racing season in the sport's 36 year history. Two World Champions will be crowned Saturday night after 2 1/2 hours of high speed action packed racing has been contested. The thoroughbreds of ice racing are the exotic Manufacturers World Cup Motorcycles. Lightning quick state-of-the-art bikes with powerful 4-stroke engines that propel riders from 0-60MPH in less than 3 seconds - on ice! These lightweight aluminum framed factory race bikes are made by the world's leading manufacturers including Honda, Yamaha, Kawasaki, Suzuki and others. The engine size and overall bike weight, wheel sizes and machine dimensions are very similar with all the different marks creating parity on the race track. Creating an atmosphere of parity with the machines allows the racer and his tuner's talents to be showcased and not so much the motorcycle. The ICE/International Championship Events sanctioned World Championship Ice Racing Series attracts many of the top professional riders on the planet. Heading up the field in Johnstown is "Jammin" Jared Mees formerly from Honey Brook, PA now making Clio, MI his home. Mees is 3-time and defending Ice Racing World Champion. He also owns two AMA Grand National Dirt Track Championships racing his XR750 Harley-Davidson during the summer months. Jared is the odds on favorite to win it all Saturday night but there are some heavy hitters coming to town that would like nothing more than to ruin his night. Just a few of the notables are 2009 World Champion Kevin "The Viking" Anderson from Cambridge, MN; "Captain" Kirk Cheney from Hastings, MI; "Freight Train" Tom McGrane from Gapp, PA and "Sideways" Sammy Wiggins from Pomeroy, PA.

If I've calculated correctly, that's about £36,000 a season, or £1,400 a week for a 26 week season. Why come to Europe? Why are reputations only made on achievements in the UK or Europe? As others have said on here - a few - Mike Bast is an all-time great.

Earming 60,000 dollars a season in the USA. Lots of sunshine in California?

Lots of conjecture on this thread about a rider few if any of us have seen. Here's something informative about an non-European orientated all-time great of speedway racing. Enjoy! http://motorcyclemuseum.org/halloffame/detail.aspx?RacerID=125&lpos=-615px&letter=B&txtFname=&rblFname=S&txtLname=&rblLname=S&discipline=0 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

http://motoress.com/...p?articleid=600 They call it 'speedway'? Here's a sad add link to the above: http://www.majiroxnews.com/2012/01/17/motorcycle-racer-hiromi-sakai-dies-during-practice-run/ JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Wrong spelling! It is Pedlar Palmer aka Ernest 'Pedlar' Palmer. Just try a google search as Pedlar Palmer speedway rider. There's lot of references about him there. I think he was given the 'Pedlar' nickname after the famous bantanweight boxer. He's also worth a search for those with fisticuff interests - same format only use boxer instead of speedway rider. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

The name of Fred Yates has been added to the Coventry rider list. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Fred Yates rode for Coventry in 1948 but seems to be forgotten by the club's A-Z of riders although his brother John does get a mention. Here's some site chatter elsewhere about the long-standing mystery. --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "roobarb36" <roobarb36@...> wrote: Like Bryan Tungate, I also wonder why Fred Yates is not listed on the Coventry A-Z of riders? Take a look. http://www.coventrybees.co/beesatoz.php --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "Bryan Tungate" <bryantungate@> wrote: My basis for mentioning Fred Yates as a Glasgow Ashfield rider was his inclusion in Peter Morrish book about 1946 - 1964 where he is listed as scoring "0" in 1949 for the Giants. Maybe he stood in as a reserve at somewhere (Fleetwood ????) when someone did not arrive On the Coventry website "History, Riders A - Z" section Fred is not mentioned despite scoring about 100 League points that 1948 season. John is listed however Bryan Tungate JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Well done Norbold. The latest links were however designed to give more input to the involvement of Johnnie Hoskins, when the first SPEEDWAY meeting took place and the use of the word speedway for meetings. It was not an oversight on my part - I was putting up links supportive of the date, the venue and good old JSH. To have again used the wikipedia link in my latest updating would have contradicted the value of the other links. I hope you enjoyed them? At least we no longer have to worry about who won the first speedway race - one of the links gives that honour to Bill Crampton. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Perhaps believes in the authenticity of everything that appears on wikipedia - I think he has been busy rewriting the speedway history section on there! I suggest Norbold takes a look at the Links I gave in the initial message to this thread - especially the one from the FIM. That has confirmed much in regard to Maitland 1923, Johnnie Hoskins involvement, and the use of the term speedway. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT A nice supportive message from you BFD. In the message previous to this I have given my insight into the thoughts of Norbold and wikipedia. Your message shows that I am not a lone voice on this topic. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Happy Birthday to speedway. December 15, 1923. West Maitland, Australia. And best regards to the late Johnnie Hoskins. Just check these great links. And do I see a reference to Johnnie Hoskins riding as well? http://www.vintagespeedway.com/Maitland3.html http://speedwayarchives.homestead.com/ (see the reference and photo of Bill Crampton towards the bottom of the page). http://www.dickbarrie.co.uk/speedway/history.htm http://www.ma.org.au/index.php?id=116 http://www.fim-live.com/en/sport/vintage/vintage-news-detail/article/1265287099-history-of-track-racing/ JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I am baffled why a Speedway GP is taking place in Auckland. It is not a speedway-bike minded country any more. There are three main centres from what I can see = Rosebank, Moore Park and Oreti Park - and they do not run on a weekly basis. The only other tracks that sometimes (and rarely) that stage speedway bikes as support to car races are at Palmerston North and Kihikihi. Contrary to this, I estimate there must be between 25 and 30 venues staging various car race formulas through from midgets and sprint cars to big 240ci stock cars. On the other hand sidecars are featured regularly at tracks where there are no solo races, Gisborne is one such track that springs tp mind but they also dominate at those tracks classified as main speedway centres. The fact that the Speedway GP had to play second fiddle to the cars at Western Springs - after their season had ended - shows where New Zealand priorities lie. I will concede, however, that the delay between cars and the GP at Western Springs was to adapt the track for the one-off bike venture. I have no doubt that a big crowd will be there - many of them not speedway fans - but merely out for a festive day as they would be for a big pop concert. A few may like the calibre of racing they see at the GP and be tempted to then go to an all-kiwi speedway. They will then have a cultural shock - rather like one would if enticed to football after a Real Madrid-Barcelnoa clash, then going to see a Blue Square South or similar fixture. But in my opinion hopes that the GP will rekindle New Zealand bike speedway just is not going to happen. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Well it used to be accepted on this forum. Here's an old link I dredged up and the surnme # Name Removed # (I expect deleted by the time this appears) was in then. It will be interesting to see if these old mentions of the respected Southampton rider's surname are affected or not? http://www.speedway-...showtopic=39765 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

The previous post and its quote summarises the whole affair. The only suggestion that Johnnie Hoskins was a speedway rider was on a Danish site. No where else. Sadly "experts" chose to try and switch the blame on others and now, as "experts", are too proud to admit they were wrong. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

It seems I have upset roccsie on his traditional home site. He even calls me oldun! It does all get rather petty with these guys on there. To them debate is agreeing with everything they say - not accepting there are alternative opinions. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I never claimed anything unique for my post about Johnnie Hoskins and the comment by Fred Mockford in the 1949 edition of 'Monthly Speedway World.' More was I indicating that the availability of material like this is an aid to researchers. And, so far as the first meeting at Crystal Palace is concerned, if it was postponed from May 12 to May 19, then the latter is obviously the opening date. Or are you now splitting hairs? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Here's an interesting snippett from a site whose link I cannot give under the new guidelines for the BSF. But in its magazine reprint section there is an article by then New Cross promoter Fred Mockford which appeared on page 6 of the 'Monthly Speedway World' for June 1949. In it Mockford claims that he brought Johnnie Hoskins to England in early 1928 for a management role at Crystal Palace along with three Australian riders, Ron Johnson, Charlie Datson and Sig Schlam. The Palace staged its first speedway meeting on May 19 1928. So, subject to the disprovers (!!), we now know how Johnnie came to England. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Jack Parker and Bill Pitcher Wal Morton and Geoff Pymar JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT