olddon

I have diverted to Wikipedia in my research and found this and I also give the link for people to find more detailed commentary. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorcycle_speedway#History “The first speedway meeting, as reported in the Maitland Mercury newspaper, took place on 15 December 1923 at the Maitland Showground in the Lower Hunter Valley, New South Wales, Australia. There is evidence that there may have been earlier meetings in Australia and broadsiding on small dirt tracks had been practised in America since before World War I.” “Originating in Maitland, New South Wales, Australia, in 1923.” JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Pity that you didn't make it clear in your post because it looked as though it was stuff you were solely putting forward and caused everyone to go off in the wrong direction in response. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

At the moment I'm prepared to support Ian Hoskins because I feel his article will be based upon papers belonging to Johnnie for the period under debate. JACK KENN, ERITH, KENT

Like you BFD, I was rather surprised at first at the tone adopted towards me after my mention of how I was treated by the manager of another site. Now I realise, this guy is the co-manager of the same site, so adopting a superior attitude seems commonplace with them. They tend to think that all posters are full-time researchers rather than just speedway followers who use these sites to try and learn more about speedway history. When we come up with something their reaction is to condemn people as armchair researchers relying on old copies of Speedway Star for our facts and maybe it is because we don't all have the time to spend at places where old newspapers are kept. I still like the theory that was put across in Colin Stewart's book about speedway's start because it covers a lot of those very early beginnings in 1923 at Maitland and is a good read to find out more of Johnnie Hoskins involving with that particular period. It seems however that history sites don't like me sometimes because while one of them has called me negative the other has twice given me public warnings so what about that.So far I've still to be convinced that Hoskins claims are wrong and with Colin Stewart and Bill Crampton putting good material to back this great promoter who were there years before those who want to belittle him were born. It's the men on thr ground who count and these former riders seem to have put a strong supporting factual case in Johnnie's favour. Thanks for some support BFD, it is appreciated by me. I just cannot wait for the article by son Ian Hoskins to back his dad's rightful place in history. Sorry I've gone on a bit here. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Correct! I have not read the contemporary newspaper report. Here's why. A while back in the New Cross reunion saga on the BSF which was brought to an abrupt end, the manager of the site which you refer to accused me of being negative and virtually boring in my Posts, both on here and on the site you suggested I visit. I do sometimes go there just to browse but not to join in the debates any more. I've not been there recently but will after I sign out from here. Regarding Colin Stewart's comments that appeared on here - is it not possible that Stewart had evidence from the Maitland affair to support his comments about the start of speedway and the involvement of Johnnie Hoskins? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I think Colin Stewart's version of West Maitland 1923 and Johnnie Hoskins involvement there is likely to prove more accurate than your version of events. After all, Stewart was a speedway rider in this era. Were you? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I've seen this before but it does throw open the possibility that all claimed for JSH and Maitland in 1923 could be correct after all. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I have been to the alternate "another site" and found this. Where does it feature in the start of speedway? On the site in question there's many comments about the start of speedway theme.Sadly, it's not backing the great Johnnie Hoskins claim to have started speedway. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8335 If you scroll down the page you'll see them listed as Early Days. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I'm amused as to how this BSF debate has caused a few members of another site to get their knickers-in-a-twist about the views of us so-called pro-Hoskinites on here but I doubt if BFD has seen them otherwise he would have laughed so much it would have brought rain to the Northern Territory! JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

This is the main quote in Bill Crampton's letter to Johnnie Hoskins: "The spectacle of motor cycles roaring round the track appealed to the spectators, so negotiations began between Maitland Show Association and the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club with the result that the first motor cycle carnival under lights was held on December 15, 1923. "And so was born the era speedway racing that we know today". - (signed) Bill Crampton, New South Wales, Australia - sent to Johnny (Johnnie) Hoskins in 1967 and subsequently published in the 'Speedway Star.'

Were the tracks less than quarter-mile ovals, loose surfaced, and riders going anti-clockwise? JACK KEEN, ERITH KENT

I'm backing BFD on the first SPEEDWAY meeting as such was the event at Maitland in December 1923. There has to be a beginning to everything and for SPEEDWAY that's should be taken as the definitive date. Let's stop clouding the issue with tish-tosh about American board racers and then dirt tracks in Australia and the USA prior to Johnnie Hoskins and the aforementioned December 1923 Maitland event. For me, SPEEDWAY starts there. I am sure Ian Hoskins' article set for 'Classic Speedway' soon will confirm this fact further. I have seen enough further evidence in the writings of Col Stewart and Bill Crampton to support my view. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Now we're getting to the crux of the debate. The first SPEEDWAY meeting. There were other disciplines like dirt track and board racing before Maitland, and there have been others since that first SPEEDWAY meeting at Maitland in December 1923. Likewise other disciplines since then - mostly on four wheels. But BFD's comment has adequately summed up the whole matter and , hopefully, will be backed by Ian Hoskins article on the same trend. When the first SPEEDWAY meeting took place. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I've just hunted around for more about John Hoskins and Bill Crampton at Maitland in 1923. It could be that not only did Johnnie stage the first SPEEDWAY meeting but actual rode in the sport's first race - according to this anyway. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/9764 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Yes BFD, quite right. There was a fear elsewhere that this topic was going off the boil. We don't want that to happen. Here is a link from elsewhere in regard to Col Stewart's opinion. http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/10709 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

The new book about pioneer Australian rider Col Stewart, plus a letter published in 'Speedway Star' sometime in the 1970s from veteran Bill Crampton, who actually rode in the first meeting at Maitland in 1923, IMO give backing to Johnnie Hoskins claims about the start of speedway. I wonder if these views will also coincide with what Ian Hoskins article on the subject of his father Johnnie and Maitland in 1923 will bring to light. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/10709

I think a reference to these links sent over before give some guide to what may have gone prior Maitland in 1923 although they're not about Australian tracks but some in the UK and Europe. I know the name Maldwyn Jones, who some claimed was the first broadsider and that he was a Welshman living in the USA. But wasn't he a board track rider more than a dirt-track racer? http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/oldtimespeedway/message/8300 http://sports.groups...ay/message/8313 JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

How do you know Johnnie Hoskins didn't first promote/invent speedway you? Were you there? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Gosh! What a tirade. You sound like a general who has lost the high ground - or rather like someone who has long believed Johnnie Hoskins DID NOT start/invent speedway having to face an increasing groundswell from those who have a contrary opinion. And where was I your "old adversary'? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Is that because the venue's 'lifeblood' sprint car and midget car events will not have completed their season until then? These formulas all look busy. http://springsspeedway.com/ JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

It's a mazing how the anti-Hoskins Brigade always claim they know that Johnnie was not the father of speedway because their research proves this. Yet when alternative opinions, and sometimes even proof is provided to countermand their comments they still insist on only themselves having the so-called true story. I wonder if these researchers have yet found out that the world isn't flat? They recently twisted their pants when another 'Classic Speedway' piece by Philip Dalling came down in support of Johnnie Hoskins. Doubtless they'll do this when his son Ian Hoskins piece appears sometime next week. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

And why not? The alternative voice on this subject is making itself heard. All power to Ian Hoskins pen in defence of his dear old dad's role in getting our great sport organised. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I couldn't agree more BigFatDave. It seems to be an obsession for some to belittle the work of Johnnie Hoskins in regard to the birth of speedway in 1923. I am sure that son Ian's 'Classic Speedway' article will be the definitive word on the fact that he did found the great sport. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Not very far mate! JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

And I thought this was supposed to be another site poster's idea? Not according to this. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT