olddon

For more information, this main link to the site may interest you? http://manchesterhistory.net JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

If you want to find out more on Belle Vue, Manchester in general, and a mention of White City, here's the main link into the site that features Johnnie Hoskins. http://manchesterhistory.net JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Just to clarify, here's the original ots message link in regard to Johnnie Hoskins Speedway Rider. Just follow the message writer's directions please. And it looks a good historical site IMO. The site is based in Denmark. Note the phrase 'claims to be John on a bike racing.' --- In oldtimespeedway@yahoogroups.com, "Tom" <tommarriott13@...> wrote: Apologies if this has been already brought up but on reading the following on this web site it shows a photo that claims to be John on a bike racing. Anyone else seen this or has comments? http://www.speedwaylife.com/en/index.php?Danish_tracks:Roskildevej_DT Scroll down and see the photo. Tom. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

There is now an updated message by moderator Ian Pesslie on oldtimespeedway discussion site where this theme originated that a possibility is the photo is of a pukka speedway rider who used the name 'Johnnie Hoskins' for his continental racing exploits. But this just creates more mystery as to who the rider was and why he chose to use Johnnie's name. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Go to http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/hoskins.html and read the original of this (a change from wikipedia for me). Johnnie Hoskins Johnnie Hoskins played a major role in the introduction of both dirt track motorcycle racing and stock car racing into the UK. Hoskins was born in New Zealand and moved to Australia in the early years of the Twentieth Century. His speciality was publicity and throughout his life Hoskins was a driving force ever ready to promote another innovation. Motor cycle racing had started as early as 1909 in Australia, although at that time it was on an asphalt surface. Grass track racing appeared in 1917. It was in 1923 though, in New South Wales, that the secretary of the West Maitland Agricultural Show, a keen motor cycle rider, Johnny Hoskins, introduced racing on a dirt track under lights. Speedway was born. Hoskins' next move was to Newcastle, Australia, where he laid out the first red shale track and from there he took the sport to Sydney and Perth. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

If the rider shown is Johnnie Hoskins he looks fairly competent judging by his riding style. I agree, it is a mystery why he never mentioned it - perhaps he was too modest about his speedway riding ability? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

There's a big error in this link about when Johnnie Hoskins 'brought speedway to England' but to tie in with the 'speedway action photo' of him, it does mention that he was a keen motorcycle racer. So it could indeed be him in speedway action. http://manchesterhistory.net/bellevue/hoskins.html JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

This is far away from Maitland December 1923 but it's pertinent to the debate. I have just visited on oldtimespeedway groups its magazines section and under Cyril May Heritage there's an article about the first High Beech meeting by Cyril. He writes about the sport's arrival in the UK and a photo shows Cyril with a poster advertising the first British meeting at High Beech on February 19 1928 at 10am. The poster, believed then to be the only one in existence, reads: Dirt Track Racing King's Oak Speedway February 19 10am. This article appeared in 'Speedway Star' on February 18 1978 on page 22. So was the meeting dirt track or was it speedway? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

No offence taken Nigel. it was wrong of me to try and contrive a link between speedway and religion Thank you. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Jimmy Wales, the founder of wikipedia, has just been interviewed on Al Jazeera TV. He didn't mention anything about the rewriting of speedway history though. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Good old wikipedia (!!) - this probably needs a rewrite by the expert in these matters? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theory JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I would have expected something different in your reply to my Post rather than something hinting at a personal attack on me. You know very well that I am not a moderator of the BSF or any other site for that matter. I am just a speedway follower. I thought your comment "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" was marginalising those who you wanted to comment on your message. I just wanted to clarify that this was an open forum where all who wanted to could debate their views and not be given guidelines. It would seem in your view that I have not contributed anything useful to the Johnnie Hoskins/Maitland debate. For my part, I am not a speedway historian rather am I a keen supporter of the sport who has gained some knowledge of its history via the several history forums that are around and reading magazines like 'Speedway Star', 'Backtrack" and 'Classic Speedway". I think the posters on this thread have already pointed out my lack of knowledge about the Australian scene in the early 1920s. From these I have learned something useful. That's why I participate on these groups - to add to my limited knowledge of speedway's origins, then decide how I view that against what I have previously found out. Sadly, too, because I tried to make a parallel between my belief in Johnnie Hoskins role at Maitland in 1923 with a similar belief in the Old Testament, I have been branded something of a 'religious nutter.' I am certainly not that but will not detail my religious beliefs for further sarcastic and sad comments like 'God wasn't in Sainsbury's' as one poster has done. That is sad and disrespectful - not to me but to those who may have more devoted religious convictions. Your message comments, as are those of the many other Posters on this thread, have been taken onboard by me and while I may or may not agree with them, I do value them and when needed will add my response to them - they may or may not be correct in the opinion of others but in this world where there is still a modicum of free speech I will continue to express them. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

This may provide you with a more profound answer to your problem than I possibly can. http://bible-truth.org/GEN2.HTM JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

You are riding a high horse when you specify who should reply to a post - "Only those who are serious about this topic need bother to participate please" - this is an open forum and all members are entitled to comment, not just those who you want to. There is a book which says the world was creatred in seven days. Despite others trying to decry that theory, I believe it. Likewise in regard to speedway, I remain convinced it was started by Johnnie Hoskins at Matitland on December 15 1923. And despite the rewriting recently of a wikipedia thread on this subject. I still subscribe to that viewpoint. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Was it something 'Sprouts" Elder did at the first speedway meeting at Maitland on December 15 1923? Did he upset the sport's founder Johnnie Hoskins? JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Gosh! What a man you are. Rewriting wikipedia, now deleting your Posts to leave the overall reading of the thread on here in confusion. Anyone else who made a mistake would probably have quoted themselves then explained the error IMO. I can't comment on Ian Hoskins article because I don't have 'Classic Speedway' mailed to me, and it seems the first Post to this thread by Ian Hoskins via BFD has not been met anyway so there's not much to read about 'the start of speedway under JSH promotion at Maitland in December 1923'. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

http://www.legtrailerart.com LEGTRAILERS By speedway artist John Proud. Through the medium of my painting I wish to take you back to a time when the crowds were huge, the dirt was deep and speedway riders used a style known as legtrailing. This is my tribute to the Dirt Track Pioneers... Strangely, dirt track racing evolved from a sport which had nothing to do with dirt. A century ago bicycle racing was all the rage in the USA. Special veldromes were erected to stage the racing. On these tracks some of the cycle races were paced by motorcycles. It wasn’t long before the motorcyclists began to stage races too. This new sport quickly outgrew the cycle velodromes. Timber was plentiful and labour was cheap. Spurred on by former cycle racing promoters like Jack Prince, massive, banked oval tracks were built in many parts of the country. As the tracks grew in size, so did the bikes. Within a few years huge 1000cc. machines, without brakes, clutches or exhaust pipes were thundering round the near vertical wooden walls. It was spectacular – and it was dangerous. And not just to the riders. A series of fatal accidents involving spectators led to a move away from the boardtracks. By the nineteen twenties US promoters began to favour holding their sport on the many horse racing ovals which dotted America. There riders developed a riding style which exploited the tracks’ dirt surface. Malwyn Jones is credited with being the first rider to corner using a broadside technique known as the ‘pendulum skid’. Soon a controlled slide became the accepted way to corner on all US dirt tracks. Then, in late 1925, three American riders, Cec Brown, Sprouts Elder and Eddie Brinck decided to try their luck in Australia, where, unknown to them, exciting things had been happening… Two years previously, a young New Zealander had strolled into a railway station in Sydney, Australia and placed the last of his cash on the ticket counter. ‘How far will this take me ?’ he asked the clerk. ‘West Maitland,’ came the reply. The Kiwi didn’t hesitate. ‘OK’, he said. ’Gimme a ticket.’ The young man’s name was John Stark Hoskins. His friends called him Johnnie. Already Johnnie Hoskins had packed more into his thirty odd years than most people manage in a lifetime. As it happened the good people of West Maitland had a place for just such an adventurer. The Agricultural Society was looking for someone to breathe new life into the events at their Showground. Johnnie was made for the job. At first things didn’t go too well. Johnnie tried the town band, dancing on the green, even goat racing. He needed something new – something different. Then, one Saturday night, he let the local motorcycle club loose on the trotting track. The result was chaos - but the crowds loved it. Johnnie had his new idea and a new sport was born. Soon things got even more spectacular. ‘You gotta let us put our foot down in the bends, Johnnie.’ the riders moaned. Off came the footrests and the riders began to experiment with quicker ways of getting round the corners. Then, into this Aussie mayhem, came three Americans who knew all about cornering motorcycles on dirt. The new sport rapidly became the rage in Australia. Enthusiastic visitors from England were also impressed. They urged Hoskins and other Australian promoters to try their luck in Britain. So in 1928 an intrepid band of pioneers set out for Europe. Their arrival caused a sensation. Huge crowds flocked to see this new ‘dirt track racing’ as it was called. Riders became household names overnight. Fortunes were made. Of all the dirt track stars none shone brighter than the American – Sprouts Elder. The lanky Californian was a supreme showman as well as a brilliant, spectacular rider. Everyone wanted to see him ride and he was able to collect huge fees in appearance money alone. For two seasons Elder and his Douglas dominated the British scene. Then the novelty of the new sport began to wear off. Speedway racing needed a shot in the arm. This came in the form of league racing. The sport was saved. However the discipline of team riding did not appeal to the devil-may-care Elder. To the dismay of his fans Sprouts packed his bags, pocketed his money and returned to the USA. Back home Elder ran into trouble. Poor financial speculation cost him his fortune. He became a speedcop in his native Fresno. There, he was seriously injured in a crash and became disabled. When his wife died, he took his own life. It was a sad end for a man who for two years thrilled the fans who crowded the speedways of Britain. The early stars of British Speedway were either Australian or American, but it wasn't long before the local lads were giving these experts a run for their money. Soon the likes of Roger Frogley, Jack Parker, Frank Varey and the Langton brothers were mixing it with the best. The locals did so well that the best of them were barred, along with their overseas colleagues, from the early league teams. To accomodate the best talent a Star Riders Championship was organised and in 1930 there were ten Englishmen in the final. By 1932 the Championship was open to all and the following year it was won by one of the greatest English riders - Tom Farndon. Tom was a Coventry lad who started racing at his local track before moving to the wide open spaces of the Crystal Palace. There he became a true superstar. At one time he held the track recoed at every National League circuit. His ability to ride on any track was emphesized when his team moved from the 440 yard oval at Crystal Palace to the tiny 'frying pan' at New Cross which was only half the size. Tom still had the beating of allcomers. Farndon was red hot favourite for 1935 Star Riders Championship when, the night before the final, he crashed in a meaningless second half race at New Cross. Tom was rushed to hospital where he died two days later. It was a tragedy which, up till then, had no parallel in British speedway history. Arguably it could be said that Johnnie Hoskins saved Wembley Stadium. The arena was built for the Empire Exhibition of 1924, but by the end of the decade its owner, Sir Arthur Elvin, was struggling to make ends meet. He needed something to fill the stadium week after week. He thought the new Dirt Track League might be the answer. Wisely he asked Johnnie to assemble a team. Using his influence with the best riders Hoskins got together a squad which was almost invincible. Crowds of 80,000 became the norm. Wembley was saved. However Hoskins and Elvin fell out over Johnnie's desire to take a team to Australia and Hoskins left Wembley to take over the promotion at West Ham. The big Custom House track in London's East End was made for Johnnie. The crowds loved his stunts and celebrity guests. Hoskins built his team around his star man Bluey Wilkinson. Wilkinson was no overnight sensation when he first arrived from Australia. But, by the mid 'Thirties he was up among the best. He should have won the first World Championship in 1936, but the scoring system went against him. Two years later he made no mistake, beating his great friend Jack Milne (USA) by just one point. Then he quit. His left knee could take no more. In 1940 Bluey was back home in Australia awaiting call up to the RAAF. He didn't get the chance to serve. On the way back from a cinema trip with his wife Muriel he was killed in a road accident. At the end of World War Two Johnnie Hoskins was quick to reopen his tracks at West Ham and Newcastle. It was at the latter that I saw my first Speedway meeting. My dad, a lifelong motorcycle fan, took me to see a match between Johnnie’s Diamonds and Birmingham. I remember it still. The weather was awful. Maybe the meeting should have been called off. But Brough Park was full and no one seemed keen to disappoint those sport starved fans. The big shot, foot forward riders didn’t shine that night. Instead the star of the evening was an Aussie named Syd Littlewood. Syd was a legtrailer – and I had my first hero. Every succeeding Monday night I watched for legtrailers. There were quite a number of riders who still practised the technique and, thanks to Johnnie Hoskins shrewd promotion, I got to see some of the pioneers of the sport. Among the favourites I cheered on were Oliver Hart, Bert Spencer, Ted Bravery, Max Grosskreutz and George Newton – to name but a few. It was all a long time ago. I still go to Speedway meetings. I enjoy the sounds and the smells. And I marvel at the brave young men who earn a living by making motorcycles go sideways. But old men like to look back. Was it really better when the engines roared unsilenced, the track was deep with cinders and the riders cornered their machines by trailing their left legs out behind? Posted on site by JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

That appears to be a general trend of some other posters as well. I'm being slammed by Grand Central. He's calling me names and claims not to understand my posts. I agree with you BFD - it all seems to be a waste of time. There's a call for debate by them but when you place an alternative viewpoint they just set out to make you look ridiculous. I'll wait until I have read the Ian Hoskins article in 'Classic Speedway' which, I predict, is also likely to get a hammering by "the experts." JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

BFD - why argue with the man who over the weekend "rewrote speedway history" or at least the wikipedia version! JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

This looks like a most recent weekend update to what I had previously brought attention on wikipedia to in regard Maitland December 15 1923! JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Here's more from wikipedia: "Johnnie S. Hoskins MBE (1892 Waitara, New Zealand – 1987 Kent, England) is the man who is considered to have 'invented' motorcycle speedway. If it cannot be established he invented the sport, he certainly played the largest role in promoting the sport (and Stock car racing) in the United Kingdom." "Electric Light Carnival On 1 December, 1923, the following appeared in the Maitland Daily Mercury:- "Motor cycle races will be a novel feature of the sports carnival to be held on December 15 on the Show Ground. The track is in splendid order, and it is expected that over 40 entries will be received for the different motor cycling events. This will be the first time that motor cycling races have been held on the Show Ground, and the events should therefore prove of great interest." In his capacity as Secretary to the Local Hunter River Agricultural Horticultural Society, Hoskins organized a Sports Charity Carnival which was staged on the Maitland Showground on 15 December, 1923. The Electric Light Carnival was staged to benefit the local orphanages and the Local Hunter River Agricultural Horticultural Society. The programme of events staged that night consisted of cycling events, horse events, trotting, athletics and motorcycle racing. This was the first occasion motorcycle racing had been staged at the venue and it is this date that is widely recognised as the day on which motorcycle speedway in its current form was born. He ran speedway at Maitland for two years and then moved onto Newcastle, Australia." That's great reading for me. For the fuller version here's the wikipedia link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnnie_Hoskins JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

That fact about Gollob in my mind was edited at a later date, after the opage originated - sure! But the previous text in the chapter about speedway's origin may not have been updated. I agree that there is mention of meetings before Maitland in 1923 - but wikipedia refers to these as dirt track whereas it does credit Maitland in December 1923 as being speedway. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

I thought this would be the sort of reply I would get. How come nobody has ever corrected wikipedia. It looks as though the statement has been there for years. It was also interesting to see a photo of Colin Stewart who backs the 1923 start of speedway at West Maitland. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT

Thank you but I cannot find the Heritage wall anywhere. I even did a site search on here and acme up with "No results found for 'heritage wall'" Can you give me for guidance please? JACK KEEN. ERITH, Kent

Can you please give the Link for NSS Heritage as I would like to see the thread you mention. Thank you. JACK KEEN, ERITH, KENT