orion

I Don't agree with the post about Zagar ...if dies hard turn up every week no matter who was riding then the crowds each match would be about the same the fact is When Swindon ride Poole and Wolves the crowds are bigger due to Ward and Woffy . Also as I pointed out to yesterday Leigh Adams used to put 300 or fans on the gate so to say that star riders don't have effect on crowds is untrue .

Not spot thou is it .. as first of all Crowds have been falling long before you could watch tv matches . And me like many others only started going back to speedway when it came back on tv . Yet again most sports due to sky are now shown live on tv and many like Darts have bigger crowds than they did . To say any sport because you can watch it on tv will somehow make them not go out watch the sport on another night is not been proved in any way . Of course like most sports a live broadcast will have a effect on the crowd of that event .

Always the British match for me no matter what league. Just can get into the Poland and Swedish matches as I don't know the teams .

Sorry but were crowds going up between 1980 and 1996 before the tv matches ?

As I said there is less chance of survival without the top boys due to the loss in crowds so it's important that they stay . Yet again the mind set of a lesser grade of rider is somehow going to save speedway and save money is wrong

How would they balance the books ?

The sky deal is six years and we are only one year into it .......nothing radical about putting out a weaker product so less fans turn up . That has been going on for the last 20 years hence why we are the state we are now .

Any club has to cut it cloth to amount of money it get's in and pays out it matter's not if they are in the El or Pl . There are clubs in both leagues who make money are there club who lose money as I have already pointed out . I am sure Premier League football clubs would not able to make the kind of signings they do now without the tv /sky money so if that went then just like speedway clubs they would have to budget for that

Has the plight of Boro Bimingham when they were pl Newport, Glasgow told you anything ? does that mean we have to change the pl ? .. for every club you can find who have had it hard at El level are find you a Pl club who have found it hard ... Ward and Woofy pay for themselves by the extra people they bring to the match . Do you know when Swindon started to find things hard ? The day Leigh Adams left the club, sure Adams got paid well ( when they paid him of course ) but he put 200 -300 on the gate every week so he paid for himself . This train of thought that if we dropped the best riders is somehow going to save the sport by giving us lower crowds is pie in the sky .

Poole are having no problems in paying Ward as Wolves have little problem paying Woffy on the other hand can Boro afford to pay the likes of Lewis Blackbird etc ? . As I keep saying plenty of clubs who don't have any top stars who can't make ends meat .Do Glasgow stuggle because they have top stars ?

Getting rid of the best people and crowd pullers makes no sense at all nor do ideas that will mean even less fans ... As I said before the Ward's and Woofies of this world paid for themselves ...a Savy boss would not just at what he pays he would look at what he was getting for his money before he starts to fire people . As I said before there are just as many teams in the Pl who don't have big names who find it hard to survive . Boro have been in the El with the sky money and cry about losing money and they have been in the Pl with the lower costs and cry about losing money

Sweden and Poland have live tv matches on at the same time so I guess they would have ask themselves the same question .Thus far they have not changed that format so it can't have caused them that many problems . Would there be a reason why uk fans would be more likely to watch tv rather than go are watched there teams than people in Sweden and Poland ?

I guess the same as Sweden and Poland find a date no matter what the race night is that both of you can agree on and race then . You can have a wet season now and it would still be a case of fitting in the matches

Good post 25 year old fan ..but yet again got to pick you up on the name of the league ...El has the name because it's the strongest league in the uk and the top division and that has never changed . Leagues in all sports around the world have names that tell you that is the top league but that does not mean that they have to have the top players riders etc in it . I am sure in Ice Hockey have a El league in the uk but doubt very much it's full of world greats . it's always amazed me why people have a problem with the name of the El that make some sense but never have a problem with the Pl name that makes none at all .

Why because I don't agree with what you say ? or when I asked you to back up what you say with some examples you can't up come with any bar Birmingham who of course had lost a packet in the Pl the last time they were in that league .No matter what league brum were in Phillips would have busted them . Just like any club that go's under like Newport Pl or Birmingham El it tends to be due to who is running the club not what league they are in . Yet again at the start of the year were hearing how great it was that Boro had left the El and there problems were over because they were in the Pl but sure enough before long there have been statements begging for fans to come and watch as they are way under there break even figure and rumors that riders have been paid all season long . Both leagues have the same big problem not enough fans to make it pay .

That's what I expected you can't come up with anything ...As I said don't say things unless you can back it with some facts .

I answer that last week when you say the same thing ...Yet again another myth that only el teams not knowing there limits for everyone I can give you a Pl that don't as well . No doubt Newport knew there limits when they were in the pl no doubt Boro knew there limits as they can't paid there riders at the moment . I accept something when you come with some facts that back up what you say but like last week I doubt you can .

What I seen on this topic and most that people can not accept that Speedway has problems in General rather than in one league . Intill people get there head round that speedway it's not working at any level or league then I doubt it will ever move forward .

Pretty of other things to try . As for one big league it's been tried and never worked and never will .

? just as many clubs in the PL cry about losing money . That is the bit don't understand let's all go Pl it's hardly a winning product . A rosier future is to try bring more fans into the sport not drive them away

Oh dear ...another example of why the public should not get a vote on Europe .

You make a good case are give you that ..this convo really makes me want to see the match now

Stead score those points from number 1 . for the Lions he would be a second string . Cook /Sedgy Fricke/Stevie may do well at home but I doubt there v 5 no'1' in the same side every week . like they would be v Leic . Bar the reserves it's almost impossible to see how Edinburgh would get a Heat Advantage let alone a win . Beating up on the Likes of Ricthie Hawkins and Matt Weathers is World apart from taken on riders who are good enough to be picked for there side in World Cup finals . Great News as Bates rides for the Lions as well .

Doyle record is not great ? think your find he's beaten Cook many times at Armadale and he's now a world class rider and bar maybe cook no one would get near him .He is a stand out El number one now unlike Cook . Then you got Stead ,Mads ,Bucks and Klindt who would and are pl number one's . Bar the reserves and the Edinburgh ones are not that good where would they get any heat advantages from ? The Lions other week got a point away to runaway El leaders Kings Lynn but somehow in your eyes they would get hammered by Edinburgh To give you a idea in the gap in class Cook Edinburghs no 1 scored 4 for Belle Vue at the lions den the other week when Belle Vue were smash to bits . Over two legs there would be about a 40 point gap

Spot on for most people no one even cares or think's who come top . The rules and the mind set is to get in the play offs spots then go from there . My Team Swindon have come top and not gone on to win but I never gave it a second thought about being the best side or it being unfair as the rules are quite clear .