oldace

On any other track those riders would have beat Muller 10 times out of ten. Around Norden Muller would beat them 10 times out of ten. It was like holding a world final on the ice racing track in Assen then being surprised a Russian ice racer wins It's all about opinions I suppose and although crowds at the venues are reasonable TV audiences have dipped the last few years so there may be merit in what you say, time will tell

Martin Vaculík and Krzysztof Kasprzak were above him

Depends on how you interpret "underserving" Was Muller a deserved winner in 83? certainly he was the best rider on the day, no luck involved and he would have won that meeting if it had been re staged the next day, and the day after that, it would have taken a mechanical failure to stop Muller at Norden. He was of course one of the worlds top longtrackers and holding a speedway final on a mini longtrack in his own back garden gifted him the title.

Think those three are pretty much the correct top three in regards best ever Brits, and two of them were Belle Vue Aces as well!!!!! Think I would have Collins and Craven at 1 and 2 with Lee marginally third.

I suppose it depends on your perception of the world championship. If you consider the world championship is about finding the best rider in the world over an entire season then the current system pretty much does the trick. If you simply want variety and an ever changing field of riders, no matter what standard they are and the possibility of an undeserving world champion then it fails

In 1977 Mike Lee was British Champion and at the top of his game. Had the GP in its current guise been around in 1977 it is 100% certain Mike Lee, if he had failed to qualify, would have been offered a place in the series, based on his 1976 exploits, similar to Ward this year. So would Peter Collins in 1974. The examples given would all have had the same opportunity now as they did in their day

I presume then she says the same about Formula 1 or Moto GP or the tennis at Wimbledon or virtually any event that is part of a series. And as for the boat race, well that one will really confuse her.

I assumed you were referring to Lee of 1977 vintage, Collins of 1973 etc, i.e when they made their debuts. Of course they went on to be greats in much the same way as the three I mentioned may well do in the future.

For Moore, Lee, Collins etc you can substitute Sayfutinov, Woffinden, Ward etc. Young talent gets the same opportunity now as then, probably more so.

16 out of 32 places places is not a closed shop but 4 out of 16 is!!!!!!!!!!!!

A raw 18 year old!!! Becker happened to be be ranked about 20 in the world in 1985 in an era of only 16 seeds. Unseeded doesn't mean qualifier, no qualifier has ever won Wimbledon. It is strange that in your contempt of the four seeded places in a GP you hold up Wimbledon as an example, a tournament that seeds 32 players directly into it. Another example you give is the snooker world final where half the field are given places without the need to qualfy

Indeed such was the dominance of the "big five". Strangely though you get people on here bemoaning how the top eight now rarely changes from one year to the next, a situation entirely brought about by the modern "qualification" system and yet here you show, nearly 60 years ago we had a situation where 24 out of 27 podium places were won by the same 5 riders. No matter how much evidence that things, as regards the top riders staying the same over long periods, are no different to how they always were people still spout the same old lines

Is this simply now a list of all British riders rather than ones of any particular note

I fully respect your opinion on the GP Sidney and I too don't think the qualification process is spot on but you keep repeating something that is untrue, thats not an opinion, thats just ignoring the truth

Soren was an Ace a few years before that Sidney

13 guaranteed places!!! OK then tell me who are the thirteen guaranteed places allocated to for 2013. There is not one single guaranteed place, how many times do you need it explaining to you. There are 11 places open to qualifying, either through the more difficult route of the current series or the easier route of the challenge. There are 4 places (maybe 1 too many) set aside for wild card picks, be that either exciting new talent, like Darcy Ward this year or riders clearly in the top 16 in the world, like maybe Nicki Pedersen also this year. Which leaves one local, or otherwise, wildcard for each event. Your argument is like saying there were 16 guaranteed places in a world final, all a rider had to do was qualify for them!! my 8 maybe would be Batchelor, Schlein, Pawlicki, Janowski, Sundstrome Miedzinski Kennett Vaculiev Unbelievably you go from detesting the way riders get there to advocating places to 8 riders who all failed in the qualifying event, you are contradicting yourself at every turn Sidney You may or may not like the GP system but to keep saying over and over that it is a closed shop when it patently isn't only serves to make you look foolish, you are literally arguing black is white.

I think we have been here before mate, we will agree to differ

Is that for real? A rider must qualify by finishing in the top 8 of a season long qualifying competition against the best 15 riders in the world and you consider that to be easy.

Seem to think Joe Owen may have used one in 1985

No mate it is not my opinion, it is just facts, you keep saying the GP is a closed shop and I was pointing out, backed up by real proof, that it is no such thing, if you wish to not believe that then I can not do anything about that. That is why I have given up!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok Sidney I give up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sidney what part of the GP qualifying system are you not getting. Janowski, Ward etc and all the others you keep banging on about have all had an opportunity to qualify for the GP, the two mentioned failed to qualify and were not in the GP, exactly as a rider failing to qualify for a World Final doesn't get to race in it. The difference is that despite failing to qualify the GP process takes account of other factors and despite a rider being eliminated he can still be offered a place, as Ward has been for this year, no doubt if Janowski continues to fail in the qualifiers but shows genuine world class he may also be offered this route. You, like a few others, have read one poster in particular banging on about the so called "closed shop" and believed it without actually seeing if there is any truth in it, which there isn't. Once and for all there is a qualifing process for the GP and a rider good enough, or lucky enough can qualify

What was (is) the problem with speedway on red button. It is, to all intents and purposes, just another sports channel, the same as Sky Sports 1,2,3, and 4. It is available to everyone subscribing to Sky with all the same features as the other sport channels, i.e. the facility to record. As regards showing it live at 4AM, that will just result in most viewers recording it for later viewing, a trend not best suited to selling premium advertising space. I would expect, depending on their other comittments that morning that Sky will show it "as live" approx mid morning, 9AM ish

Surely this is all a big mistake, everyone knows there are no qualifiers for the GP series. All these riders from all over the world being conned into thinking it is a GP qualifier. Worse still there are 4 other similar cons going on in other parts of the globe, and even worse it has been going on for years. Sidney and Ian and Derek all tell us these meetings dont exist

Oh dear, I would HAVE thought better of you than to fall into replacing "have" with "of". tut tut tut