acef

There is always a social element I'll concede that, the atmosphere plays a big role alongside it as well and ultimately bums on seats is revenue whether they like the sport or not. I'd counter, though, that I wouldn't want that type of fan in my business per se. I'd want the motorsports fan first of all and then build around it. She can come, but on the back of solid hearsay from those who do actually enjoy the sport. At the moment we are struggling to hold onto any type of racing fan, be it road dirt or track. When you start focusing on the parts around your main offering its really easy to forget why we are here. Ultimately we are selling speedway here, that should always be at least 80% of your revenue, people who enjoy it. Building this social element and team thing etc, it's all great, but it's not what we start with, it's what follows when we have a smooth sailing product. Your trying to start with it as a means to make the the thing fly. You need the wings first Dean.

True story this. Scouts honour. I can't remember which meeting it was, but I took one of my staff to the NSS a few weeks ago for the first time (to any speedway meeting). I remember the first half of the meeting being pretty much gate and go and I was sitting there thinking I don't believe this. It had been roasting all day and they had overwatered the track. As it dried and went slick, I think it was heat 7, it was like someone flicked a switch. All of a sudden the racing was top banana like it always is at the NSS. He said to me on the way home that he loved it. He was on the edge of his seat. Last week he came back! That's right, back! True story! Morale is, the racing (eventually) got him. That's the hook. So now of course, I'm giving him the sell last week about teams, how the general principle of it goes etc. Again he really enjoys it, he can see himself getting into it so he's coming with me to the next meeting. The sport sold itself to him. 4 men on 4 bikes doing 4 laps having a race. Pass after pass and of course your right on top of it at the NSS. No fancy stuff, the sport did it all by itslef.

Then we need to change that, surely? That is why I'm beating the same drum about the quality of track. Forget changing the bikes, it's not economical and needs to come from the FIM for it to work properly. There is a harsh reality around the circuits we have here, they don't suit the modern machine so they need to be adapted to fit. We have suffered for years because we are inherently built within dog tracks. It worked for a long time. It doesn't anymore. Look at the results of a purpose built speedway stadium in the NSS, ironically just as they are in Poland and Sweden, its results speak volumes. A track that perfectly suits the sport of speedway.

Crowds are in double digit decline YOY. Its massive. The majority of fans may go for the team element but what is the majority now? 1k on average per top flight team? Its dropping like a stone so if I was developing this sport I would instantly change the dynamic. Speedway isn't adapting. You can't sell a product if the product isn't right. I've ran my own pubs/restaurants throughout my career. Without blowing my own trumpet, I'm very successful with it. My guest is KING. Absolutely nobody leaves my businesses unhappy. What the customer wants, the customer gets. Period. As a consequence my trip advisor ratings are through the roof. That is the basis of any business. Stability in the foundations. Make sure the product you sell is bang on the money and then you start to promote and sell/expand. This is where speedway fails every single time. You can't sell a team aspect if the racing (the core product/foundation) isn't right. I'm not saying the team element isn't important, it is, but it will stand for nothing if the main event doesn't capture your customer. I'll say for the umpteenth time, ask ANY neutral with a minimal knowledge of this sport how they feel about it, and they will all give the same answer. They are going to tell you they were bored. They are not interested in the team element. They only come once, because the main event didn't sell. If one of my restaurants started showing any sign of decline or poor guest feedback I would immediately pull the plug on any marketing or sales driving until I identified the issue and fixed it. That is called being counter productive and will do more harm than good trying to grow something that isn't working. If one of my businesses was in the same level of decline as speedway, I wouldn't be listening to the remaining guests I had telling me everything was fine, because it quite clearly isn't. Just because those minimal fans that attend speedway say they go for the team element doesn't mean that the team element is right, because your declining like crazy! It's an utterly stupid logic and displays a basic lack of common sense. A lot of supporters still in this sport are the same ones as 20/30 years ago. Speedway doesn't know how to capture a new audience and like it's core, declining fan base, is stuck in 1985. Society has moved forward. For speedway it really isn't difficult. The speedway is the hook, the team element is the sell. In that order.

The post you quoted was just total tripe. I dont believe people can be THAT stupid.

Because, as I'm sure you agree, teams are absolutely irrelevant. It's a line trotted out by people minus a brain cell. The declining crowds tell us quite clearly that the racing is the core issue. You can't sell a team aspect if the product is boring. You address the racing first, get the customer on the hook and THEN push the team element. This is schoolboy stuff imo. It's really really simple. I'm perplexed that the majority just don't get it.

I'd also go any night. The reason the crowds are down is purely due to the race night.

The sport alone will never sell itself in the UK. Its image is boring. That is the general consensus. On the continent the product can also be boring, but the climate is entirely different out there so it still works. We have a major issue with the image here.

And of course all that tv money went into their own sky rocket rather than an investment into the circuits and the sport. When sky came on board many promotions thought we had the jackpot, actually it was the same product as now and the exposure only exasperated the decline. Its a great example of the old school folk who operate this sport. They have no vision. They only see what's right in front of them. They are spit and sawdust people who think opening the doors to a pub and standing and drinking at the end of the bar is enough to make their business work. They are outdated and completely out of ideas.

I have a lot of time for Rob. He's fast becoming a class, international rider who has stepped up significantly this season. A real diamond with a natural ability in a sea of British rubbishe.

Brilliant post.

Wolves have been operating on a Monday for years. Belle Vue realised their market place and that was a Friday night. It got changed because we didn't have a vote. Result. Crowds off a cliff. The NSS is a diamond. It needs pushing to the hilt but unfortunately the wrong people have the power.

The tracks are the main issue SP. From the material used, to the shape, to the general prep. It seems we are in a minority

At BV you get about 60% of the racing being edge of the seat stuff. The club had decent crowds last year, up on the stadiums debut season I belive. This year serious decline and that's because of the race night. Good racing puts bums on seats because the crowd are being entertained.

It's all related at the end of the day. We are having a discussion about the sport generally. That the association don't respond is all driven by exactly what we are discussing

The team argument can quite simply be put to bed for me. Crowds are declining every day and that speaks volumes. If it was the team element that made people come back then they'd come back. They don't. End of argument as far as I'm concerned

The sport is in double digit decline YOY. That isn't because we don't have teams anymore, because as far as I can see we still have about 35 'teams' remaining. It's because the sport in its main form bores people to tears. Like I stated earlier, ask anyone with limited knowledge and they will all tell you the same thing. It's just not exciting enough. They don't go to watch 'Belle Vue' the team, if that was the case, surely they'd come back??? Unfortunately they don't come back and that's because the entertainment value is non existent.

Absolutely bang on the money. The team element will not change that perspective. The sport in its basic format just doesn't work in the UK. Its boring and until that changes crowds will continue to decline.

Never felt that way personally and the younger gereeation don't either imo

I've always been completely neutral. Ive had a go at riding myself and spent many a day at the old Sheffield academy. That given me a different perspective because I knew where the money would come from as a self employed person. In the end it didn't matter because I couldnt afford it. What it did was make me unattached. I'm mancunian but have no affiliation to belle vue. I just watch my racing there because its local and I enjoy it.

Since the early 80s. More than long enough.

I did yes. It was quite amusing. From a riders perspective they need money in the bank. Steve can't spend Tuesday night serving in McDonald's and Thursday racing his motorbike. From his point of view I understand. Unfortunately his point of view is totally irrelevant because its not about him, its about the fan. If he wants to be professional about it then he needs to see what is most important in this sport. The promoters have made it about the promoters. The riders have made it about the riders. You can guess what's missing here can't you? Speedways biggest achiles heel.

I think that post Dean highlights perfectly the difference in point of view between how a Polish person would view the sport versus a British person. From my own experience I've always viewed speedway as an individual sport even at team level. I think many Brits share that point of view. We can't assume that what works in Poland is going to work here. The sport simply don't carry the weight here that it does out there. We need to start entertaining the fans. Speedway can be incredibly exciting and that is what will put bums on seats in the UK. Track prep and shape so that it suits the current machine is going to help that significantly

£4 is relative. It's not really a fair comparison. I agree the team element of the sport needs to be better but that isn't reinventing the sport, it's basic promoting and that doesn't happen often enough. Joining the leagues will help that issue. It will remove the same staffing in both leagues and give something the fan can relate to. I still stand by original argument though. Track prep and anything else that aids better racing is only going to help. Ask any person with a minimal knowledge of speedway about the sport and they will all give you the same answer. It's boring. The mentality of the Polish community is nothing like that of the British. They are quite prepared to watch a dull meeting on the remit that they can relate to their team. That simply wouldn't fly in the UK.

In that they are tuned different you mean?