YeOldPitGate

Agreed no good/easy choices moving forward but if the premier is reduced to say 4 or 5 teams next season and given no one is daft enough to move up what are the alternatives to say a 10-12 team championship standard top league ?

Any interesting rumours you have heard recently Phil to give us something to chat about on a quite Monday morning ?

Despite his mistakes you can't fault Tolley's commitment there must have been a zillion other things he could have blown north of £250k on.

Out of interest does anyone have any inkling what each prem club gets from the current tv contract ? from memory Flagrag if he's still about was close to people in broadcasting maybe he knows/has some thoughts.

What is the alternative though ? run with a 4 or 5 team top flight.

The best solution I could see if the money was there to make it happen would be the polish model, 8 in top league and 8-10 in division 2, once home and away most promoters don't own the stadiums so this should reduce losses as less meetings but the shortened season would mean seeing the top boys only once and hopefully lead to more meaningful meetings. The top boys could still pick up there 4-6k and maybe a few more would come back with a shortened season, the second strings could still double down to boost their earnings. Try and run meetings at least fort nightly rather than monthly avoiding the 6 meetings in two weeks early October scenario and more fans losing interest due to no regular schedule. This would save seeing the same teams/riders every week, if you knew Emil was coming once a year rather than three/four times you might turn up. As I say the money isn't there to make it happen but its like anything in life if you wanted to get fit maybe you would look at what Ronaldo's fitness routine is rather than sticking with a diet of kebabs and coke and expecting a different result.

I can hear it now "do you fancy moving up and increasing your cost base by 30-40% with minimal increase in your attendance and we only want you moving up as the current club members are either folding or looking to drop out"

But how do you see the top league working then ? given the current format isn't working and no one wants to move up ?

But with no Brum and if Oxford drop out of Prem, Poole have no interest in moving up , nor Glasgow how do you see a five team league (at best) functioning ?

Agreed and yet 90% of clubs still make losses so the point is costs along with a multiple of other things show the format isn't working a top team of only 7 clubs with one definately gone and three rumoured under threat of running in the top league speaks volumes around costs/losses. It might well be beyond the point of no return all i'm saying 3k turning up the other week at Poole shows people will still turn up to watch a team of premier league second strings and two point men in numbers so long as that team is put out 90%.

I'm normally on the same page as you Mike but think a championship standard league set up of say 12-14 five man teams is the way to go, I love seeing the top boys on tracks where they can truly display their skills but we can't afford them. I have said before when Rob Lambert turns up for one of his brief stints he's a brilliant rider to watch, but is probably on 4-6k per meeting and I reckon he won't add 50-100 on the gate the numbers just don't stack up. Look at Poole the other week 3k turning up to watch premier league second strings and two point men its about getting a team out that's there for the fans for 90% of meetings. The Ford's are shrewd they know moving up is financial suicide and they are a well run club look what's happended to Brum they signed Lindgren last season even with Wolves closed and the crowd numbers were still utterly terrible.

I can remember going down to Ippo not so long ago for a lynn derby that pulled in over 5k, no days anything scraping over a thousand people is considered bumper.

Its super difficult but how much longer can the current ever worsening status quo limp on ? if we assume Brum are gone, Oxford just do champ, nobody with any financial sense wants to move up, if Sheffield and Leicester did stop running that leaves Lynn, Belle Vue and Ippo to drop down given two are reasonably wealthy clubs by Speedway standards could three more clubs be fitted into the championship and premier league is done.

Went by the stadium earlier and someone was having a really good look at the pit gate.

I'm currently reading the late John Berry's book he was picked to be the head honcho in the late 80's and I reckon would have given it a good go but it all fell apart before it got started due to restrictions put on him from the get go.

I'm not disagreeing Ian more a case of the fact you can't get hardly anybody to ride here anymore even those starting out 90% don't want to know, look at the situation at Berwick three established riders, r/r and three reserves who are out of their depth most of the time but they don't seem able to find a rough diamond anywhere to take a chance on a 4 point average even.

Another sad fact of state of UK speedway where it looks like Leicester going to try and go with R/R for rest of season for Becker.

Agreed Phil few would be willing to host it and risk running at a loss, it doesn't help with Tai injured there's only really two strong riders Lambert and Bewley, did you used to go in the 80's & 90's when Coventry hosted generally pulled in a crowd of 10k plus and you had the likes of Wigg, Tatum, Cross, Havelock, Silver, Doncaster, Morton, Evitts all as contenders with another 4-5 as spoiler like Marvyn Cox great days.

Christ if you were on the old second bend you must remember nut he was a wirey sort closed cropped black hair from memory when Richard Knight would circle round he would come out of the bar and bellow "Richard Knight " at 20 thousand decibels about 8-10 times then he would head straight back into the bar and carry on sinking his pints I don't think he ever watched a single race, he had about 5-6 mates who used to drink with him mid 80's to early 90's was my time at Saddlebow.

Morning all , I was watching some old 1980's Youtube videos on speedway last night, and it brought back memories of when I was in late teens and used to watch Loram and Gustaffson at Lynn both masters of balance. I stopped going probably 1990 ish. I wonder if anyone has any stories of what went wrong between Bill Barker and Malcolm Simmons they took over Lynn in 1988 from memory put together a power house team that for what ever reason didn't work out then they then had a falling out. Bill Barker should have been in stand up I used to go to the winter talk in's and he was pure comedy and was on the terraces selling raffle tickets but it was clear he wasn't happy with Simmo for some reason. The terrace charecters I remember were Wild Wayne who used to do the war chant and a fella me and one of my best friends christianed Nutter who used to spend all his time in the bar on the second bend downing pints he looked hard as nails and wouldn't watch any of the racing but would come out and go mental whenever Richard Knight circled round from memory nutter later did the same for Amando Dalle Chelle. Any stories would be appreciated from anyone who remembers the charecters and can throw a bit of light on what went wrong with Barker and Simmo, seem to remember there was a hu ha with Barker and someone burgling his house. Does Wild Wayne still go , would imagine Nutter is now pushing up daisies given the amount of pints and fags he would smoke during the meeting he was pure north lynn hard as but he was a proper character.

Hi didn't Laura end up throwing the towel in though due to massive ongoing losses ?

Whats he supposed to have done now Blobby ?

Fair point but you get my drift if you could do away with it, it shows there is still a market for the sport (in this case even as you say where 5 are doubling up).

Didn't go to the meeting so can't comment on the track, but that aside maybe there is a glimmer of hope , a track runs on its preferred night, it has a team that is manned by riders who are 90% plus committed to riding in the UK and over 3k turn up. Granted its against decent opposition and a new talent was being wheeled out. However it goes to show if you could get rid of doubling up, multiple guests, run on your preferred night, promote the sport locally, try and keep 3-4 of the team year after year so supporters can relate to them you might have a chance of breaking even or making a small profit. If you had of had Holder and Ward there v Doyle and Emil last night you would probably have got 4k plus in but it goes to show if things fall into place there is still a market for speedway at a rider level seen last night even though the super stars weren't there.

Don't disagree with that but what does a complete overhaul even look like, is it an option given even half the championship riders , ride in Poland so UK would probably still be stuck with Mon-Wed to run on, the three most unattractive nights of the week (I know Poole love Wednesdays).