chunky

Unfortunately, my copy is still in storage, so I can't check. Of course, speedway is prone to these issues as you never know whether league and KOC are counted in the averages, or just league...

According to Speedway History (proboards) he averaged 8.7 in 1965.

I knew Moggo pretty well, and used to follow him quite a bit. Great guy, and fantastic rider, but it didn't matter where I went to see him, he would usually end up through the fence at some point during the meeting! One of the best was at Foxhall in '87, when he demolished several sections of fence on the home straight...

Sorry I'm not as old as you! Actually, I was born in 1962, so there was a small chance...

That was the one thing that eluded me; I never got to see the Dons win the league. Best was the hat-trick of KOC's... Never saw a Wimbledon World Champ either - except for Larry in the 79 WTC.

From that list, the only one I never got to was the Cross. I was thinking the other day, the vast majority of tracks I visited have gone.

Ruddy cold when the wind blew in from the river, though!

That is what I have always said; there was such a variation in track sizes, shapes, and surfaces, it was always interesting.

1969 for me. Although I have some happy memories from before then, that seems to be when speedway actually enveloped me. In particular, Mirac coming back (I wasn't old enough to actually remember watching him previously) was a big deal for me, and that was also my first World Final.

On the other hand, John Louis stands out for being a later era than the others. Take 1969. Five of the seven were close to their peak, and the top two Englishmen in the averages were the Boococks. They were closely followed by Wilson, and Ashby and Betts were both pushing a 10-point average. Simmo still had a few years before reaching his peak, but was already a force to be reckoned with. Louis hadn't sat on a speedway bike yet...

I know what the title says, but I also know Sidney! I can assure that Craven, Collins, and Lee would be in his top seven English riders. This was a debate about seven OF England's finest from a particular era, not THE best seven. To be fair, I'm not sure that that a couple of World Final appearances and a British Final win would put him above Boocock. The ironic thing is that in a previous thread, I had actually placed Simmo above Chris Morton. Several other members then pointed out that Mort's record in the World Championship and major meetings, and a very impressive league record, would put HIM above Simmo also!

Hi Matt, I just noticed you are missing Ray Cresp (born August 25, 1928). On the original thread, Ray was missed out there also! So, he would come in at No. 6 ahead of Billy Bales. Incidentally, can anyone confirm the correct spelling of Mr Close? I was always led to believe it was the standard "Derek" (and it was always published as such), but in recent years, I have seen both "Derick" and "Derrick", mainly on here... I still think it is likely to be "Derek".

I don't think that this was meant to be "all-inclusive"; just sorting out a rating of these particular riders. Of course,riders like Craven and Collins would be mentioned in a full list. Firstly, as has been discussed here before, World Team Cups aren't really an indication of "individual ability". A specific example is PC's three World Team Cup Final maximums. Yes, it was an achievement, but the ONLY true world-class rider he faced in those was Michanek. Again, while World Pairs wins are a more accurate representation, riders like Nigel Boocock shouldn't be penalised for not having pairs wins when his best years were in an era when the event didn't exist! I admit that Eric Boocock didn't achieve much on the international stage, but his BL record and consistency should count for something, and year in, year out, produced figures better than several others mentioned here.

WE knew what he was capable of. I just don't think HE knew...

The thing that always amazed me was that Martin qualified relatively early in his career, but couldn't add to that as he matured.

As we have always said, for years, the most difficult round from which to qualify was the British Final.

I don't just use the British Final as a guide; I also look at averages/domestic form and World Final appearances. That is why I rate Nigel as highly as I do.

BUT... It is no joke, the women's toilets are generally a lot worse than the men's. Most people I know who clean will tell you that... Sorry ladies...

I see it all the time... My wife worked in an office, and she said it wasn't unusual to see crap (literally) on the main door handle going out of the women's toilets. Yes, people are that disgusting...

That looks good to me...

People are commenting on the measures being taken by shops and businesses. Our stores are limiting numbers, marking floors and designating areas etc, but unless they are RIGIDLY enforced, they will have little or no effect. Of course, stores can't constantly police everyone, and therein lies the problem; too many people are morons who can't/won't police themselves. The vast majority of people I am seeing ARE doing a good job of self-policing, but it only takes one or two idiots ignoring advice to cause problems. The single thing that worries me is that so many people don't care about personal hygiene. I clean at a local bar, and I am horrified by the amount of people who don't wash their hands after using the toilet. If they won't do it (as a matter of course) after dropping the kids off at the pool, I can't see them following advice now.

My mum died when she was 63, and had been suffering from cancer of the aesophagus. One of the causes of death was chronic obstructive airway disease. Influenza is a major cause of excess morbidity in people with chronic obstructive airway disease. My dad died when he was 64. He had been suffering from myasthenia gravis, and multiple myeloma. Then they discovered an inoperable tumour in his aesophagus. One of the main causes of death was pneumonia. In fact, I received a call at 6.30am on the Friday morning, informing me that he had pneumonia, and that he wouldn't last the weekend. Which he didn't. My grandmother, who died at 93, had two causes of death listed; old age, and pneumonia. So yes, you are correct.

It's amazing how people twist numbers... The reason those confirmed cases are closed is because of the death rate, and not - as you seem to suggest - the other way round. If you are honest, you would admit that the final death rate will not be anything like that. As far as people criticising those who "downplay" the virus on here, claiming comparisons are "invalid" need to look at it like this. 1) Nobody is attempting to downplay or trivialise the effect of COVID-19. Yes, it IS serious, particularly for the elderly and infirm. 2) As serious as it is, there are many other things in this world that afflict people, causing suffering and death, and in great numbers. Therefore all comparisons can be classed as "valid". 3) As has been said, regular flu/pneumonia/respiratory afflictions kill people in HUGE numbers every year. The fact that most people are willing to sweep these under the carpet seems to indicate that the general public a) don't believe these numbers, b) don't WANT to believe these numbers, or c) don't care. 4) You're worried about catching COVID-19? Be sensible. Take precautions. Wash your hands. Practice social distancing. Even taking something totally different, let's consider this: There have been 1.5 million confirmed cases of COVID-19 worldwide. In 2017, 2.2 million people needed medical attention due to motor vehicle accidents. In the United States ALONE! 14,802 Americans have died from COVID-19 so far, and everybody is scared. 37,133 Americans died in motor vehicle accidents in 2017. You want to kick it up a notch? 607,000 Americans die each year from cancer. 647,000 Americans die each year from heart disease. Nobody thinks about that. More to the point, nobody worries about that. If you were to multiply the current number of deaths in the US from COVID-19 by ten, that would be a total of 148,020. You see my point? Nobody is trying to trivialise COVID-19, but as bad as it is, it still doesn't - and won't - claim anywhere near the number of victims that other things do. Other things that seemingly aren't worth a second thought to most of you. People die. We are all going to die. If it's not from one thing, it will be another. It's not worse, or more important, to die from one thing rather than another, and just because a single virus is bringing the world to a standstill, many more people will die from many other causes. And will be ignored...

Joel Jansson passed away in 2018.

Don't forget, Bob, PC's first two rides at Katowice in 1976 were both pretty special too.