chunky

Come on John, it doesn't matter how much you prod, or try to convert your opinion into fact, the TRUTH is that the current "National League" (or National Development League) is every bit as much the GENUINE article as the National League of the 1950's. To quote the Collins dictionary, "NATIONAL" ls defined as : "relating to the whole of a country or nation rather than to part of it"" and "affecting a (or the) nation as a whole; nationwide in scope, involvement, representation, etc" and "a competition in which participants compete for a nationwide ranking, title, championship, etc." Comparisons of specific levels are denoted by titles such as Elite League, Premier League, and First Division... Steve

I looked back over some of the comments, and thought I would do some checking. Ray Cresp hasn't been mentioned, and as I said, I'd totally forgotten about him. Last I heard, he was still alive, and I wasn't able to find anything online to make me think otherwise. Yeah, I moved - six years ago! Steve

Okay, here is an updated list from what I can find... Split Waterman. 27/7/23 Arthur Payne. 30/8/24 Dick Bradley. 28/11/24 Eric Boothroyd. 26/4/27 Derek Close. 13/5/27 Ray Cresp. 25/8/28 Billy Bales. 6/6/29 Ollie Nygren. 11/11/29 Rune Sormander. 29/11/29 Jack Geran. 10/12/29 Ian Williams. 4/8/31 Per Tage Svensson. 16/10/31 Per Olof Soderman. 29/10/32 Ove Fundin. 23/5/33 Jim Lightfoot. 11/11/33 Dan Forsberg. 25/3/34 Reserves Josef Hofmeister. 26/7/34 Brian Crutcher. 23/8/34 Sad thing is that Stefan Kwoczala (who passed away a couple of weeks ago) should have been on the list (b. 15/6/34), but was never actually named.

Hey, just thought of something; Ray Cresp is still alive, isn't he? If so, he should be high on the list, being born 25th August, 1928. Can't believe I didn't notice it before... Steve

Amother currently hovering just outside the published list is our old friend, Bob Andrews, who was born on 27th October, 1935. Steve

As far as I know, Arthur Payne is still with us. Brian Crutcher comes in ahead of Broady, as he was born 23rd August, 1934. Steve

Honestly, way too much is made of the team riding aspect. Even though there was more in the old days, it certainly wasn't as prevalent as everyone seems to remember. That's why we remember it so well, because we can only recall particular riders and instances! The problem at the weekend was that most teams were unbalanced. Zmarzlik and Dudek should have been more evenly matched, and so should Sayfutdinov and Laguta. Thing is, if you don't get out of the gate (or at least to the first turn) together, it makes it really difficult, particularly at a track like Togliatti. The best instance of team riding was when Doyle took one of the opponents wide (can't remember who it was), and made a gap for Fricke to come through. Again, this is one of the problems with modern track surfaces along with modern superfast bikes which produce excessive wheelspin. Trying to slow down a race to allow your partner to catch up can be a very risky thing to attempt. Steve

Not missing the point at all. If a nation doesn't have three strong senior riders, it is highly unlikely that they will have a competitive under-21. Again, that is where GB are lucky; the best under-21 is also the nation's second best senior rider! I have said this before though, that throwing kids in at the deep end can be very counter-productive. In hindsight, it may have been better to take another under-21 instead of Harris, but you must admit, once you get past Woffinden, Lambert, and Cook, the list of Brits who can genuinely compete at world level is pretty bloody sparse! Funny thing is, we have a lot of "good" youngsters, but none of them (outside of Lambert) are anywhere near ready. Having said that, history will show that VERY few of the best teenagers actually develop into true world-class riders, and that youth development programs actually generate little in the way of world-class contenders. What happens in reality is that once every few years, someone special comes along, and any connections to a youth programme are likely to be coincidental. That isn't just a British thing, and neither is it a speedway problem either; it is the way of things. Steve

You're really missing the point. Everyone whines about how flawed the modern systems (GP's, SoN, etc) are, but the old systems which people seem to prefer are no less flawed! As I have said repeatedly, whatever system is used, there will always be anomalies and weird occurrences. I agree - in principle - with your comment about two semis and a final, but there aren't enough nations of suitable strength to provide two decent and competitive semis. Forgetting the poor track in Togliatti, how much better could it have been had we had Woffinden and a fit Lambert, and the Germans had Smolinski with Huckenbeck? Like many others, I think the biggest flaw with the SoN is the compulsory inclusion - and use - of Under-21's. If you want to find the strongest "nation" (be it pairs, 4-man teams, or whatever), then let them choose their strongest riders, regardless of age. Of course, the system benefits GB (when the riders are fit) because of Lambert, but instead of equalizing team strengths, all it does is favour teams like GB and Poland. Steve

The only embarrassment is that we don't have enough quality replacements, which isn't exactly Rosco's fault... Even had we taken Bewley - or anyone else, for that matter - instead of Harris, we would still have brought up the rear. Steve

Showing your age, pal!!! Like me...

Of course the British Final was tough. My point refers to the comment where the poster apparently thinks that only winners should advance to finals. In those days, you could finish fifth, eighth, sixth, and then eleventh in a series of meetings, yet you would be in the World Final - which it was possible to win without even winning a race! Steve

Trust me, there are enough of those comments that you don't have to read every post or thread! Plus, did you not see the emoji I used? I don't always like emojis, but I use them if I think anyone may misunderstand my intent... Steve

I wish you a speedy recovery. You have obviously just got home from hospital after having your sense of humour removed... There has been a constant battle on here as there are those who believe that being born in a foreign country makes you British, yet being born in Britain to British parents makes you an Aussie... Yes, IT WAS A JOKE! WHOOSH! Iainb clearly got it...

Good call!!!

Hancock? Tony Hancock was the blood donor, so Chris Harris must be the points donor... Ouch...

So you want two non-Brits to control GB??? Hang on, does being born in Malta make you British, or being born in Britain to British parents? I'll get me coat...

Even with a fit Lambert and Cook, I don't think we should be challenging teams like Australia and Sweden. If we are to challenge at all, we need Woffinden. The Poles were disappointing, but they still have several world-class riders outside of Zmarzlik. Outside of Woffinden, we don't... If you think Harris's performance made us look worse, then that is up to you. I prefer to use facts like we couldn't take a point off anyone yesterday - even when we did get in front. Doesn't matter how far behind he was...

Not just patience; a closer look at reality. You hit several nails on the head there... Steve

1) Absolutely not. This is 2019, not 1980, and we simply don't have anyone close to the quality of Woffinden and Lambert. Oh yes, Cook is next in line, and guess what, he was injured too! You can't just think we should be beating everyone because we are British, or because Germany used to be crap. Remember, it would have been even worse had they had Smolinski instead of Riss... 2) As proud as we were of Lambert, last year's silver was pretty much courtesy of one of the greatest INDIVIDUAL performances in speedway history. That was no indication whatsoever of the strength of GB as a nation. 3) It is most unfair to say it was just down to Bomber's performance; we were missing Woffinden, a fit Lambert, and a fit Cook. As I said elsewhere, how many of the teams in attendance would have survived the loss of their top three riders?

And Lambert and Cook injured... We would have made Czechoslovakia's 1970 WTC score look mighty impressive...

I see you are confused, Midland Red? The poster was claiming that the cricket World Cup should qualify only two group winners directly to the final, and that the Champions League should include only "champions". Therefore, I wonder what he thought of the old speedway World Championship system, where you could scrape through each of the qualifying rounds (in as low as 11th spot), and then win a World Final? Of course, those were the "good old days" when it was possible to become World Champion without winning a race... Steve

Of course, speedway was so much better in the old days, particularly in the World Championship. Sixteen qualifying meetings with only the winner from each making it to the World Final!

Should it now? You probably feel the same way about the football World Cup. And the Olympic rowing events with the repechage. And fastest losers in Olympic athletics events. Steve

And Liverpool didn't win the Premier League, despite losing only one game to Manchester City's four. And Roger Federer (36) won more games than Novak Djokovic (32), yet Djokovic won Wimbledon. Is everyone up in arms about it, and protesting the systems? Of course not... Funny, but speedway fans are so fixed on "try explaining that to non-speedway fans". All they are doing is justifying (or attempting to justify) to themselves what they believe is wrong with speedway, and why non-speedway fans don't follow the sport. Like things like that are important to non-speedway fans. Whatever system is used, there will always be anomalies... Steve