chunky

Bill Osborne scored 1 pt for England in an unofficial Test Match at Hastings on February 12, 1952. The match was scheduled to be the first of a series, but the series was abandoned as a result of an injury to Freddie Williams. The hosts won by a score of 31-17. Scorers were : NZ - Ronnie Moore 12, Bruce Abernethy 11, Mary Dunn 5, Ron Johnston 3. England - Norman Parker 7, Freddie Williams 6, Gil Craven 3, Bill Osborne 1. Steve

Had a spell of going there regularly. Worst thing was the drive round the bloody South Circular! Of course, it was no worse than going over to Hackney... Steve

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Sure, PC wasn't perfect, and didn't do it all the time, but only a couple of days ago, I was going through some videos on tube, and looking back, I'm embarrassed to say that I'd forgotten just how good PC really was. It wasn't just at Hyde Rd. Steve

Try looking at the very first post... Steve

That's fine, and I understand your reasons for the above categorisations - although I believe that should be 1951, and not 1851... What intrigues me is that you have listed 1970-1994. I personally would have inserted a cutoff at 1976-77, with the advent of the four-valve engine, but again, that is just my opinion. My next question here is that, do you think it is acceptable/possible to compare riders from one era to riders from the following, or indeed preceding era? Gundersen and Rickardsson, for example? Steve

Speedyguy, you are constantly referring to the different eras. As a matter of interest, into how many eras (with dates) would you separate the sport? Steve

Regardless, I'd say that for a spell, he was the best rider in the world. Steve

While I agree with that assessment, it is a little unfair when one considers the limited opportunities for non-Commonwealth riders back then. Steve

I've just added Dick Fisher and John Davis to level three. Steve

Okay, here is an updated list : Level One Peter Craven, Peter Collins, Michael Lee, Tom Farndon, Jack Parker. Level Two Nigel Boocock, Eric Boocock, Ray Wilson, Malcolm Simmons, Dave Jessup, Arthur Forrest, Tommy Price, Freddie Williams, Ken McKinlay, Kenny Carter, Chris Morton, Simon Wigg, Mark Loram, Brian Crutcher, Split Waterman, John Louis, Gary Havelock, Eric Langton. Level Three Bill Kitchen, Jeremy Doncaster, Les Collins, Kelvin Tatum, Trevor Hedge, Martin Ashby, Terry Betts, Jim McMillan, Norman Hunter, Norman Parker, Ron How, Frank Charles, John Louis, Jim Kempster, Martin Dugard, Gordon Kennett, Ginger Lees, John Davis, Dick Fisher. Level Four Any number of riders such as Phil Collins, the Grahame brothers. Jeff Lloyd, Alan Hunt, Scott Nicholls, Roger Frogley, Eric Boothroyd etc. Steve

I'VE ALREADY APOLOGISED!!! Seriously though, I don't know how I forgot Eric Langton, and I was thinking about Ginger Lees at the third level. Sidney : I did mean to put Arthur Forrest in level two... It was the early hours of the morning when I did that, so that's my excuse... Steve

Interesting that you should say that; I've actually been thinking about compiling such a list, although I would add an extra level. Obviously, there would be some who could fit into a couple of groups, but starting off, I would say that the "elite" group would be : Peter Collins, Peter Craven, Michael Lee, Tom Farndon, Jack Parker. Second Level Nigel Boocock, Eric Boocock, Ray Wilson, Malcolm Simmons, Dave Jessup, Tommy Price, Freddie Williams, Ken McKinlay, Kenny Carter, Chris Morton, Simon Wigg, Mark Loram, Brian Crutcher, Split Waterman, John Louis, Gary Havelock. Third Level Bill Kitchen, Jeremy Doncaster, Les Collins, Kelvin Tatum, Trevor Hedge, Martin Ashby, Terry Betts, Jim McMillan, Norman Hunter, Norman Parker, Arthur Forrest, Ron How, Frank Charles, Chris Louis. Fourth Level Any number of riders such as Phil Collins, the Grahame brothers, Jeff Lloyd, Alan Hunt, Scott Nicholls, Roger Frogley, Eric Boothroyd etc. Steve PS Apologies if I missed any obvious names from the top three!!!

I thought about Bernie after I posted previously. I mentioned him in post #20. Sidney mentioned him in post#4. Steve

I haven't found the magazine yet, but that seems to confirm everything that I thought; thanks. Steve

As I always tell people - I'm not old, I just look it and feel it... My parents met at Wimbledon (my mum started going in 1950, and my dad first went in 1958), I was born in 1962, and went to my first meeting when I was three weeks old. Even though I was young, many of my earliest memories are of speedway. As I said, for whatever reason, that night stands out for me. Steve

Glad to know that you were there too! I don't know why, but Christer's debut is just one of those nights that I'll always remember, even though I was just 7 years old. Steve

Although he had a lot of time out as a result of injury, Ron was actually with Coventry until 1972. Others who merit inclusion are Jim Tebby (Wim), Bob Garrad (RH), Brian Clark (P'boro), Pete Reading (M'boro), Les McGillivray (Hack), Barney Kennett (Cant), Rob Hollingworth (Bos), Rob Grant (Ber), Cyril Brine (Wim), and Mike Lanham (Ips). Steve

Well, Jesse Owens was a reigning Olympic Champion, and let's not forget that a certain Mr. Wilkinson was the reigning speedway World Champion! Steve

sidney : Shawn Moran appeared under the name of David East in some sort of open fixture at Hull, scoring eight points, I believe. I'll see if I can dig out the SS. Steve

Even though none of the three fulfilled their potential, I would put Nicholls as the best of the bunch, followed by Harris. Realistically, Nicholls would be the only one who I would even consider including in a list of the Top 30 British riders, not that I've thought about it that much... Steve

Think you're being a little harsh on Doncaster; a regular 9-point man in a strong BL, and a World Championship bronze medalist... Steve

I came very close to mentioning Maido, but didn't want to appear too biased (although his best years were at Hyde Rd, of course) and Mountford. Good call with Forrest too, and to confirm, White Knight, he was the 'Black Prince'. Another few who haven't (I don't think, anyway) been discussed include the Grahame brothers, Jim Lightfoot, Chris Pusey, Tony Davey, George Hunter, Alan Hunt, and Jimmy Gooch. Others who merit inclusion here are Roy Trigg, Steve Bastable, Eric Boothroyd, Howard Cole, Dick Bradley, and Ronnie Genz. And yes, sidney, Bill Kitchen. Steve

Good call! Let's not forget Donkey either. Others worth a mention include Mike Broadbank, Brian Brett, Les Collins, Dick Fisher, and of course, Split Waterman. This is what scares me; look at all the names we can rattle off with ease, yet how many modern era (post-1990) merit inclusion? Steve

I think it boils down simply to home track advantage. While this still obviously applies to a degree, in those days, riders weren't riding in different countries on a regular basis. The Poles couldn't master British tracks, and vice versa. Sweden, I feel, relied more on team strength than home advantage, but it was still noticeable. Steve Louis, Boocock, and Kennett definitely. While the others mentioned were very capable, I would put a number of other British riders above them, including Tatum, McMillan, How, Hedge, McKinlay, Davis, Crutcher, and Norman Hunter. Steve

For me, I would have to include - in no particular order - Lee, Farndon, Collins, and Craven. The fifth spot? Either Jack Parker or Nigel Boocock,. Steve