spook

It does all need to speed up and I dont see why 2 mins is needed after unsatisfactory start..... 1 min at most........... maybe the general delays were due to a new race director and he will improve the track grading I believe is firmly set out in the FIM regulations im agreeing with a lot of what you are saying bwitcher but I do think it was a case of 'raceable at that point' more than 'perfectly raceable' .... and that the track was disintegrating faster than we usually see ................... the riders were the final nail in the coffin, but all involved seemed to play their part and maybe if just one of the issues had been dealt with smoothly we wouldnt have seen the end result. BSI farmed it out to PZM ...... they forced them to use speed sport ....... already this covers the track build and the tapes......... and for that they should most definitely be holding their hands up

yes the starts were fair for all..... but the starts werent normal and the guy who does not adapt is dead in the water.............. Fridays practice was not fine at all and clearly the riders were unhappy............. I think we can roughly imagine the conversations that were taking place between riders and officials and the promises being made about the track improving There is no doubt that they should have carried on and completed the meeting and at that point didnt have enough of an argument ............... but I think it is fair to say that it was not the 'normal' night of racing that most of them would have wanted in Rd1................. unfortunately they were allowed to pull rider power, if they had been dealt with better they would have had a reminder that adapting could be the key word in any round........... as others have mentioned we also have issues with what constitutes a dangerous surface now

well they are the license holders of the speedway world championship..... and seemingly have been all about stamping a mark on which is of a slick and professional presentation (!) ..... so when something goes wrong whether they are directly to blame or not, it is their job to carry out damage limitation. I cannot remember what the meeting was, if it was a GP or SWC, but I do seem to remember Paul Bellamy a few years ago being interviewed by SKY where he did some damage limitation and informed the viewers of what had happened and why. Most of us will watch other sports, & when something unusual or disastrous happens you can guarantee that the coverage will involve someone from management/officiating etc will be interviewed to explain the situation................. for example I watch a lot of MX and SX....... we have had these interviews after red flags... failed drugs tests.... black flagged rider etc etc ................. and at the very least word is given to those televising even if it is not on the record complete silence after such visible ineptitude and mutiny... and then a response which mostly seems to revolve around a key line passing the buck does not look sincere or have any kind of understanding of the damage that was just carried out imo the day people stop apologising is the day they are arrogant or entitled Humphrey

the ineptitude shown by all on the night was staggering...... when the ref... the race director and the members of that grand jury cant snap the evening out of the swan dive it was taking, there is a huge problem I was impressed by Greg & how he was dealing with conditions ..... clearly they are not the conditions he would like, and barring one rut which seemed to cost him a place, he was getting on with it ............. Obviously we dont know much about just who was involved in that meeting room....... but it is easy to look down the list of riders (and points on the board) and come to some decisions about who would be likely to want the racing stopped.......... anyone with a low score...... anyone who were likely to keep the same low score............. anyone injured............ any of the expected top 5 guys who were not matching NKI & Jarek...................... that would easily be a majority

I dont know what to say Bwitcher.... other than please read this again as a response to your first two lines SCB asked for opinion and I gave mine .... I do agree with you to some extent about the riders...... they were clearly wound up about practice..... and I think they all wanted to start their championships off with what they would consider a fair crack or 'normal........... something they didnt get with the starts and something they decided they either werent getting with the track or werent going to get Like I say i'll watch it again later but I dont remember everything being fine and dandy at all.... and even pushing aside practice & the reffing decisions & just focussing on the racing, the riders were being asked to deal with circumstances and conditions which would make them adapt or fail

From what I can see there are indications that a refund to the fans IS due: FIM rules clearly state the result can be awarded after either 12 or 16 heats if the meeting is ended before 20 SGP ticket terms and conditions for Cardiff & Malilla (conditions for other GP's not shown) state: I dont see how they are able to refuse refunding the fans Unless ive missed something it would also indicate why PZM want to take legal action against BSI...... unless they are concerned about future ticket sales considering their 3 year contract

BSI are the license holders..... whether they organised the event or not they have involvement....... an apology would be expected by them no matter the situation, as it happened on their watch.......... apologising for the wrecked night does not necessarily indicate that they were directly responsible when the GP's are increasingly run by multiple companies.................................... what it would have achieved is a professional bridge between the disaster of a meeting and what was to become an amateur gap 2 days later blaming the officials is an easy route historically in speedway and usually everyone just moves on and forgets about it............... but there is a very real possibility that someone is going to have to stump up hard cash for the weekend ...... blaming the officials wont help that & i'm not sure that the various parties will want the FIM pi$$ed off

thats a fair point .........but I had been thinking since around ht5 that trouble was around the corner..... the track had started deteriorating too early obviously there was a lot going on already in the meeting by that point so I i'll watch the heats again sometime later ...... but I dont subscribe to the point of view that there was no issue................ there was most likely going to be an issue but the riders moved too quickly on it

standard procedure? i'm not sure about that ...... It is not giving anything away that evening to apologise (in the way that he has ended up doing anyway) and then to promise a statement on Monday. It needs to be understood that no fan knew what was happening that night either during the racing, the riders' meeting, or after....... and in fact two more days have elapsed since. Comparison of the FIM regulations and the SGP ticket terms & conditions also throws up a big question mark over ticket refunds... and yet there has been no word about this either....... a fairly important subject matter I would have thought. It seems to me that the Jury are a bit of an unecessary third wheel when it comes to 'determining the condition of the track' ........... and as we now see, they are looking like the patsies...

So the backside covering has started and we have the interestingly synchronised Ole Olsen & Paul Bellamy passing the buck............... and i'm sure Paul Bellamy's statement would be going over a bit better if he hadnt waited 2 days while he consulted his lawyers first. It kind of questions how much genuine sentiment is involved. A simple question please.............. how are the FIM jury supposed to know just how much a track will behave itself? Isnt that the job of the track curators? (the ones that BSI dictate should be used)

and presumably this is because it will be the organisers who have to refund rather than BSI edit: can't say I blame them if they had no say over who laid the track and then it ended up being the official cause of the stoppage of the meeting

I really think the answer could be as simple as the final straw had been broken for the riders ............. following issues at practice.... issues with the starting gate..... issues with reffing.............. and all within the first handful of heats of a world championship that many had been preparing for over months all it takes is someone on 3 or less points to consider that they arent coping well with the adverse conditions and that they are unlikely to make the semis.............. hell they may not even score another point while someone like NKI could streak to a GP win with 19 points on the board they may well have had a valid point about the state of the track....... but not at that premature point

It certainly looks like it is different FIM rules clearly state the result can be awarded after either 12 or 16 heats if the meeting is ended before 20 SGP ticket terms and conditions for Cardiff & Malilla (conditions for other GP's not shown) state: I dont see how they are able to refuse refunding the fans

haha love it sometimes you literally dont need to say a word and people will just hang themselves

but there is an argument that NKI caused his injury and subsequent lay off....where maybe other riders take a slower and steadier approach I am sure that riders like Darcy, Emil & Noddy would love your approach ..... while the likes of Greg & Tai wouldn't as they dont chase the back wheels & hang it out there so much amazing incredible stupendous special machinery on show for the Poles tonight.................. thought it changed things as far as WC's went.... but after looking at standings im not sure it did really....maybe just made sure that BSI didnt consider another Pole instead of Jarek I think its as easy as counting the top 11 through .... although THJ could replace Lindgren or Jonsson..... and Vaculik or Ward could replace Batch.......... add Kildemand ....and the GP Challenge qualifiers ....and there is #1 - #15

Bomber is a current GP rider though and that is probably more to the point apparently if Zagar pulls out now he will most likely suffer a 3 day ban which will rule him out of a big match in Poland

I noticed last night that Kelvin, Nigel & Scott were all talking about Iversen, just like you Philip, as if he is a done deal. No matter how much we believe & would want Iversen & Ward back in I dont think it is that easy lets suppose Doyle Korneliussen Kildemand & Andersen qualify from the challenge....& Batch Holder Pedersen & Bjerre get in the top 8......................we would then be looking at 10 of the 15 riders being Danish & Aussie by giving Iversen & Ward WC's it would make it a lineup of 1x Brit 1x American 1x Pole 1x Slovenian 4x Aussies 6x Danes +1 more WC +1 meeting WC (including more Danes & Aussies at their GP's) the remaining wildcard would probably go to a Swede which would then leave them with only 1 swede and 1 Pole...........I cannot see that ever working for BSI in the end though, as is usually the way, the GP Challenge will probably be helpful for BSI....... Lindgren or Jonsson are more likely than Bjerre to qualify, and Ward will probably be banned/blocked anyway

I feel really bad for Greg as he has been so unlucky ................ but I think the system overall works quite well as those that chase back wheels and take risks are more likely to have to sit out at some time during the year..... those like Greg (ordinarily) who play the %'s will stay on track more............... the WC's usually suffice for the guys who deserve them and missed out due to injury but we do have the odd year where BSI maybe needed an extra one If we take it back to the old world championship system again then it was far more ruthless for those with injuries your suggestion is an interesting one.....although I could see riders starting to abuse it if they didnt like the track, were having a bad time with engines, were only 75% fit, or their Polish club insist quietly that they save themselves for a final playoff match etc etc

I can imagine that was quite the occasion! I was lucky enough to experience the first Odsal World Final and the excitement levels on the night and building up surpassed what ive experienced with the GP's...... but the GP's are still cracking & I think are a better fit for this modern, media and businesslike era

Money?

I guess so CHR...........but others who have won a GP are: Miedzinski Harris MJJ Vaculik Lindback Holta Andersen & i'd only consider 2 of those Zmarzlik pulled off his very 'special' GP (re: Miedzinski) on his home track and needs a couple of years matching his home performances on other tracks imho Smolinski has never been the same since his handlebar button was discovered & outlawed......... & in this day and age a rider who finds it hard to unglue himself from the white line really stands out like an underperforming sore thumb (aka 'an Andersen') the local WC's can be a bit of a farce but could possibly be the difference between the series visiting only 4 countries or more edit: that comes across as a bit rude about Smolinski .... i'm full of admiration for what he has achieved in recent years but since his win and controversy I think we have witnessed his true standard at this level and it is probably currently shy of the required mark.......... maybe if he changed his nationality to British.....

from a business perspective Gollob would be a no brainer if he was interested. Those empty Polish stadiums would be full (a wholly different prospect to those riders 20 years younger), & if it became more than just a one year thing for him then BSI would be in a position of power in negotiating which Polish tracks are to be used. It is hardly the rose tinted romantic perspective of world championship speedway that we would all like but it is a real one none the less. Nagging? No but considering the options that BSI will certainly be considering. As far as his abilities are concerned they are not in question, with maybe more a factor being his machinery being 'special' again & his levels of interest allowing him to rise to the top. Before he was world champion he had been around for a long time and had been going through a period of disinterest. And we arent really going to be underestimating age in speedway, in this era of all eras.... are we? It is sad to read what you are saying Philip and a career like Tomasz's deserved a better send off.

Yes just been reading that about Emil...... I cant help feeling that the proof would be in the pudding when he was offered it though (same with vaculik - although I am sure there are at least 4 who would accept before he was asked anyway) quota factors cannot be ignored for Ward & Iversen ........... in my memory we have never seen BSI break the pattern ... and if 4 or 5 Danes are already qualified I cannot see them giving Iversen a place no matter his top 3 standard. For the same reasons I cannot see Ward being given a place if The Aussies already have 3 ......... I could see them being tempted if they have 2 though What is the case with Gollob now then?..... is he on the way to retirement? is he just disinterested? would an injection of sponsorship make a difference?

just been putting my thoughts down about qualifiers and WC picks in the GP Challenge thread................ good post Arnie ..... although I think a business focussed BSI will still use quota as a starting point... they always do usually they are lucky that the qualifiers in the GP challenge dont interfere with their plans too much...... but this year it is a recipe for disaster for them with so many top guys relying on full WC's .....and a high chance of some of them being blocked simply by a full quota of their countrymen qualifying

There is so much riding on this meeting for BSI & some of the riders in need of full wildcards for next season We all know quota shouldnt matter but it's always seemed to and BSI are mostly creatures of habit...... 4 riders are generally the maximum per nation ..... 2 minimum for Denmark, Poland & Sweden..... 2 desired for UK but BSI have shown they will go with just 1.......... Aussie picks are maybe less predictable if they end up holding a round, but generally over the years they seem to have 2 There is a big ever growing pot of top quality riders for BSI to consider for the 3 permanent picks Gollob Sayfutdinov Iversen Ward MJJ Vaculik THJ Kildemand (+ the usual host of riders they like (AJ) + ignore every year (Laguta)) If Doyle & Batch qualify for next year (assuming Holder will) then Ward will be in big trouble (if eligible anyway) With 5 Danes in the Challenge & Pedersen all but qualified Iversen could also be in big trouble .......same for MJJ and then there is the question of Gollob who despite probably not justifying a place for next year.... would fill those Polish venues ........ but with Kasprzak heading for qualification, Hampel still in with a chance and 3 Poles in the challenge he could be forced out I should imagine ideally for BSI they would probably be hoping for 1x Pole + THJ + Another Swede + Kildemand personally I think i'd like to see Kolodziej Kildemand THJ & Magic p.s. I wonder what odds on Harris qualifying?