moxey63

The crowd at Belle Vue last night was terrific, as viewed on TV. However, the Play-Offs have become the main agenda for the domestic season and in a funny way have devalued the league programme that serves them. Funny, many at Belle Vue last night weren't actually present for the conception in March, have been absent while mum carried the sprog all summer. Most important though, they were there last night... for the actual birth.

The cheek of riders like Doyle annoys me. British speedway cannot continue to beg riders who wish to ride anywhere but here, and by saying you can have several bad meetings here before feeling under any pressure only adds to the severity of the problem and reinforces whether we are seeing these "tired" boys at their best. British speedway will not return to anything like a power while it allows average-riders to make outlandish comments. Who brought these boys over to Europe in the first place? Tired because he has to rush off to catch his journey to Poland. British speedway yearns for the days when riders were committed to clubs. How does the average fan feel, paying his hard-earned cash, standing on the terraces week on week, and then riders imply they are bottom of their priorities. I made up my mind years ago - I cannot offer full support for men that see a us as a bit of overtime. Wake up, promoters.

There is no set way of measuring dedication. For example, I know a lad who has bought every Man United shirt since 1993... and yet he doesn't know where Old Trafford is.

The whole point of criticism, is hopefully to get the product right. I think, if all those fans that have gone missing (apart from having passed on) over the decades were asked why they stopped attending, the sport would have much better idea of what direction to go, and maybe wouldn't have gone down the wrong way street so many times. If we don't like the service at the chippy, we don't go again. The shop may think it s doing things right, but the customer is really the sponsor, the lifeblood, and will decide on whether that chippy stays open. That chippy chap, a know it all, will do things his way and serve a product he thinks is great, but not attracting more than the odd new customer... relying on those who'll eat anything and will eat there at least once a week. The critics will be classed as whiners, and won't be listened to. A chance to keep those customers, by listening, is lost. John Perrin at Belle Vue used to have a saying - "If you don't like it (when some fans complained), don't come back" - and many didn't, and then he had to plead every close season fro more support, otherwise he'd sell the shop. We all have our individual views on what's wrong with speedway. Many non-attenders have just grown out of it. But, especially with the internet and these forums, surely some sort of research could be carried out to see why those fans no longer attend. Many (like me) still visit these forums. I haven't been a regular for 10 years or so but still have an interest. When I used to whinge on the Belle Vue forum about the sport, I was called a troll. Now, funny how it is, quite a few are saying the exact same things! The worrying things is, I'd say a lot of fans are so close to attending their last matches. One post on the forum suggested he still attends out of habit. I have been there. Once that habit is broken... Speedway is a sport that had a lot, squandered much of it, and now stares down a barrel. The thing is, it is a barrel it's turned on itself. Truth is, back to the topic of this thread,, is that dedicated fans are usually the mugs that speedway bosses have relied on for years to keep the sport ticking, whether as track workers, programme compilers, ticket sellers, or even those loyal diehards that will put up with anything, as long as they can continue their habit.

There are two arguments. Do you want to appeal to new fans, which means the sport must be organised better, or do we want to appease those missing fans and invite them back, which means stop fiddling about with the rules etc and be thankful for what you've got? By that, I mean the loyal, every weekers. New fans won't bother about rules the first night they attend, it is how the night goes that will decide their plans for the week after. How many old-ups, how many times The Final Countdown is played... Most of us didn't know what speedway was when we first attended, and it was a bigger sport then, and we got into the rules because we went a second and third time. We were introduced by a friend etc. In this first world, want-it-now attitude, I can't see many new youngsters today being fans of tomorrow. So I suggest,bring back 13 heats, the old tac sub, stop having Joe, Fred and Mike riding for every side in the league, and then us oldstagers will stay interested and bring some young uns along, keep the family tree going. Other than that, speedway can only hope life expectancy increases for its remaining support. And, judging by some of the folk I see on my TV during the SKY nights, many aren't bothering to renew their 5-year diary.

Any sport or game needs simple rules, a product that winners are seen as winners, deserved winners. We remember the great teams, great individuals. For example, in a time we have now of manipulating figures during the league round-robin before the Play-Offs start, would we have witnessed the great Cradley side of 1983 and the masses of points it scored to win the title? Would many of those riders been told to ease off and just saunter into the Play-Offs, in case a new signing came along? I think lot of speedway now is pretend, to put it simple. Why should I, as a long-in-the-tooth fan, feel Poole's loss at Belle Vue is a shock or great achievement for the Aces? I question if Poole were serious. In a way, isn't it similar to a pre-season football friendly, it's what comes when the real thing starts (the Play-Offs in speedway's case) that matters. I know the Play-Offs are here for good, but I think they mask a detrimental impact on crowd figures for the preceding matches, the 20-odd the track has to dance its way towards the last four. People may say there were meaningless league matches before the Play-Offs. That is so. But fans didn't know different, because it was a set programme of fixtures. Now, it is pointed towards that pot of gold at the end of the rainbow, that is like the cake for a child... but only when that kid has lived through a plate of vegetables. The Play-Offs have given the other fixtures a take-or-leave feel. In the past, seasons used to be planned on your clubs final fixture. Now, as we approach September and the rush for Play-Off spaces, many don't even know whether they are about to see their club's final fixture of the year, depending on the top four cut.

My feelings are echoed by you Matt. I used to attend, in my latter years between 200-06, out of habit. I didn't pay to get in and still felt I couldn't be arsed, felt as if someone was forcing me to attend jury service. I stopped going about nine years back, haven't missed it, never watch it, and yet still yet still hanker for the speedway pages on the internet! But more so the old stuff on ebay, old topics etc. I too got/get sick of seeing so many riders racing for so many teams. I couldn't keep up with who was where, the double points rule etc, it put me off. I couldn't name a single team from 1-7 this year, but am still a fan of speedway, if only the years dot through to the mid-2000s. I still admire a good race - the Swedish League match the other night was quite good. But the team ethic has gone, riders can't focus on spreading themselves so thinly between different sides. You see some of the old boys in their racejackets, and they may as well have had them as skin, they were inseparable. I want to support a team that I know all the boys are my boys, where other clubs turn out with all their own men, not a season set up so that Poole (example) can eat their spinach just at the right time and come good, like that wrestling game, in which the good guy comes good after getting set upon until a certain point. Speedway has gone backwards and is more a circus act than it ever was.

Oh dear... a lot of space needed at Retro Towers to store the unsold Ole DVDs. I didn't mind him... a real star appeal when he turned up at my track.

Amazing, mentioning 5Live and its coverage of speedway. The very thought of the station crossed my mind this morning, the rare time I heard them mention speedway was the Lee Richardson. Fingers crossed Lewis Kerr denies them mentioning the sport again.

No - nothing as drastic. Perhaps invite all fans in for free... as guests, perhaps? You can't expect people to pay true cash for a sport made up of pretend battle.

Have them all, I do... right from 1952. They'll be buried with me, they will.

This isn't a true story... I found it funny anyway, off the cuff sort of thing.

Worst thing happened to me, when my old grannie scattered what she thought were her husband's ashes on the trip back from France (a favourite holiday destination for the couple), only for me to my shock horror, to discover it was the container that contained shale from Hyde Road. Wasn't happy at all... and I had the final vote in putting her in that home. Feel bad now, before you start, as someone... right now, at this moment, is staring on his mantle piece... and staring right back is my grand pap's ashes... He believes he has a vase full of Belle Vue shale. Wonderful thing, ebay is! WARNING:NO GRANDPARENTS WERE REALLY HARMED IN THE TELLING OF THIS TALE. NAMES AND DETAILS HAVE BEEN LEFT OUT TO PROTECT MY EBAY RATINGS!

And I, sir, hope you chucked out Mrs. CHR!

Learned something from Tai's Talksport appearance - we have something in common, in that I pick up any pennies I see on the pavement! Oh, yeah, and my earlobes are looking really big these days! That's more than that Duncan Smith chap claims.....

Perhaps that is why domestic meetings are so poorly attended. Maybe they are all advertised as being held behind closed doors and only when they have the product right will they open them to the paying customer.

If it's the same one I'm thinking, I am sure later on Lee was interviewed in his civvies, the May Bank Holiday 1984 match at Ipswich. He was sick of referees hounding him and said he was totally hacked/jacked off with the sport. The referee that day was Frank Ebdon. If my memory is correct, wasn't Lee wearing a black jacket in the last interview? How times change... when I actually got angry at England being beat, when I actually sat in front of the goggle box for any kind of speedway.

All this excited chat about speedway being on the telly on a programme I have never heard of... Then, on the other hand all you seem to get is moans about SKY and the thousands upon thousands of hours they have afforded it for the last 16 years. People are strange, as the Doors song goes, in that they appreciate things in small amounts but find so much fault when it's scooped up in large dollops. You will get several posts about a speedway poster on someone's bedroom wall in a certain soap, a two second glimpse, and yet become aloof when speedway in on TV sometimes three times in one week. Discuss...

Seems you're not alone... ask Kenneth Bjerre the same. Or its modern name - Tactical Ride. It means, young man, GOLDEN DOUBLE...

Guest riders, I don't like, but there is no other option. They have been used since I started watching, so there's nothing to compare them against. On the other hand, any happening that makes the sport appear silly... like last night's Billy Smart's Circus race involving Bjerre and Harris... shouldn't be encouraged. My last word on the subject, is anything that makes speedway look silly shouldn't be involved in a sport that's fighting for its credibility. The GD, in my view, and last night was a clear one, makes speedway look like All-In Wrestling... and that bloke with the big mouth stood near Kelv and Nige, he may have crossed over from watching Barry Hearn's darts, a sport more suited to such rules. The bloke certainly seemed to have downed a few beforehand. I want speedway to be a serious sport. I stopped treating it as one... at about the time the GD was introduced. I know riders have always allowed a team mate cross the line in front, called team riding, but there is something silly about the GD way of doing this. Bjerre was expected to shut off to let Bomber through right at the death. By not doing so, it questions who has got the finger on the pulse - manager, riders. In a sport that is crying out for its team ethics, last night's GD questions a rider that doesn't follow instructions by the club that pays his wages when a guest rider... a guest rider... is going all-out in a race to score double points for that team. Last night signifies a lot with what's wrong with speedway. It is supposedly a team sport, but full of individuals.

So why did Lyon have a dig at Bjerre?

Here we go again... by the leading rider allowing his partner to pass so he can gain extra points is throwing the race. Anyways... Tell Bjerre they are on the same team... and tell him, while you're at it, Rob Lyon is team manager and he should listen to him... about throwing the race to let Harris win!

Loved them... because it wasn't silly rules. Don't recall you losing a point for your team because you didn't let your partner through. But, if you like it, there's nowt like taste.

That fellow near the commentary box... has he been let out for the day with matron? Sounds half soaped, he does.

Golden Double... simply the dawn of speedway's modern-day demise. It encourages riders to throw races... and Bjerre ain't playing that game.