moxey63

Your post, my friend, is spot on.

Sidney, I like your post. Perhaps the thing was, witht he past, was you actually believed your guys were doing it for you, rightly or wrongly, and I remember the nerves when (as a BV fan) PC lined up against Ole Olsen in a Belle Vue v Coventry clash. I remember it even now... it was like the rest of your week relied on it. I believe the one man-one team element has robbed the sport of commitment from riders and fans alike. I am just compiling a yearbook for 1984 (sad, I know), and just going through the mags week by week, I get the old feelings. for example, I recall a story in which Belle Vue were about to lose Larry Ross to Exeter. I was sick, that he'd even think about leaving Belle Vue. It disturbed me... and I was in my 20s back then, so not a child. Time does alter your feelings, but I don't feel daft - even 30 years later - that I felt like this. Those feelings, for speedway anyway, left me as time progressed. As a 52 year-old, I still have them.. but now for Man City. I don't collect Man City stuff though, never look on ebay etc for it, but I do for any speedway stuff. I still love the speedway, but when did I stop idolising modern day speedway? Sorry to go on about football, but I was thinking just last night... that City had just visited Newcastle, and that will be their one visit in the league. Has the two and three time a year visit in speedway also robbed us of something? I think speedway's problems are several contributing factors. I know it'll never be the same as it was, but surely there is something wrong... with me, even... when you prefer one period of speedway to the current one. It is like two different sports. I'm going on, I know, so I'll shut up.

The answer was fine... it was the envelope it arrived in... As I said, Eurosport said they would come back, at 9.10pm and show the remaining heats. When I checked, they had come back, but my harddrive went off and stopped recording it at that exact point. I just wanted to know whether the heats were shown, that's all. Me, being a friendly northerner, I would have given a friendly response... but, that's cos I'm a friendly northerner. Thank you for your answer, anyway.

True what Billy Sanders said about Reading people, judging by your response to a simple question. I just wanted a simple answer, but high-horses were invented in your area first. So, are you saying, Eurosport didn't show the final five heats? Here is your board duster...

Sorry! Bet you're fun to live with, sir... All I need now, is the board duster being thrown at me... and I'm there, right back at school.

England (or is it GB?) didn't win the World Cup with Smith, Richardson, Screen or Loram. Apart from National title success from these, it was only Loram that really stepped into the star bracket, courtesy of his GP win...

The worry to me... no, it isn't really... is just who's coming through as youngsters to support the sport? I think time shows that most fans were probably introduced to it by an elder. As a lot of us oldies are walking away from it, it leaves less scope to encourage younger fans to attend. Hence this leaves lower and lower crowds. Bit simplistic, I know, but, as Team GB have found, who is there to replace the legends, young replacing the old? Who is coming along to eventually replace retiring Moxey63, The White Knight and OldAce; On track, it's like who's come in Team GB's to fill the shoes of the likes of PC, Simmo, Tautum, Wigg?

The White Knight and OldAce are perfect examples of my pattern - I became disillusioned with speedway about eight years ago, so much so that I decided to stop attending. Before that I had routinely gone every week, not really looking forward to it, more I suppose going only because I felt I had to... there was a group of us and if I didn't go, no one went. The pressure was on me. I remember the start of one season, which may have been 2003, the first match was like your gran coming at Christmas... and you had to give her that stomach-wrenching kiss! I didn't want to do it. It wasn't important that Belle Vue were always botttom. What was, was I saw decent speedway and felt like the sport was worth my attending. Eventually, I felt it wasn't. Eight years on, I have SKY but rarely watch speedway. I record all the meetings on disc, but never watch them. Sometimes the match is on in the background, but I don't know what's happening, occasionally taking notice. The funny thing is, I still come on here, still try to compile speedway stat books and the like, still collect old speedway stuff... in fact, I always check ebay for items I may bid on. So it's a strange one.

Yippee! I have a friend! What are you on about? I was talking about a football match on the pitch, not a two-legged competition to help reinforce your argument. After noticing your 18,000-plus post, I bow to your better understanding of life... or lack of it. I think, my friend, you should partake in the activity of female company more often... or any living person for that matter. Then, trying to win a keyboard row on a wasteless speedway rule... you simply won't have the need.

And I wasn't listening... Least I have a preference for one of the rules. You, on the other hand, feel both rules unfair. Seems like you're a windchime supporter, goes with whatever the wind decides. Double points interfere with the fabric of speedway's almost 100 years' scoring method. Using the football analogy, GD is like double-sizing the goal of the leading team midway through the match, to keep things interesting. It wouldn't happen in football. .

False results? If the Golden Double points are fair, then why aren't they included in rider averages? Tac Sub points were always included in rider scores. No one will ever tell me TS was unfair; but I have told myself, surely the GD is silly and bizarre.. As a fan brought up on one, I can't take the GD (a bloke dressed as a woman rule) all that seriously... and that's why I stopped believing in speedway. You will have your points to make; I have mine. Just that I'm the one who stays at home... whereas you are happy... with that fella dressed in female attire. It aint real.

The Tac Sub allowed maximum use of your force, long as it was after heat 4 and your were 6 down; the GD, on the other hand, allows you to use your might and muscle, but only if the deficit falls at the correct time of your best rider being scheduled. You could go enough behind, and not have a decent rider in for another three heats! Therefore, a team boss will probably throw his black and white choice on a rider who has little chance of pulling it off.

So, tell me this... do you think it frustrating, the double-dildo, is silly and wrecks with the statistical side of the sport. A real sport, a genuine product has no need to alter the scoring... when the crowd needs keeping awake. There was no fiddling with the old tac sub, it was always the same - 3,2,1. It wasn't called for, needing the nominated rider to have to finsih ahead of his partner, just to get full points. That is silly and is staged-managed speedway. It doesn't even try to kid anyone...

Come on... liking the Joker because it makes the thing exciting! What about four guys on brake-less speedway bikes, racing for four laps within inches of each other? Speedway's Golden Double and Joker... well, it's like vote-rigging in those tacky gameshows, just so we get a closely contested finale. It's the happy-hour in the pub, where the set-price is put to one side so we can all get giddy. It keeps the audience interested... but the fulfillment of a close-battle soon erodes. A true sport, a serious one... well chaps, does it need novelty values?

How can it give out false results, the old tac sub, and yet the Golden Double doesn't (which ignores speedway's life-long history of 3,2,1 scoring system... simply for the benefit of a bit of fake tan and the hope that no-one notices it washes off). How can you defend a rule that in one fell swoop allows you to get a 7-point pull back, allows team mates to throw the race to do this (allowing the B/W guy to win, hence full 6 points)? Yes, old fans that don't go anymore will probably use this as one of the reasons, getting rid of the TS... but why shouldn't they? Why should they continue to follow a sport that has sold out part of its scoring system, just to hoodwink people that match scorelines can still be attractive, if a little silly-like. And don't get me going on the SWC Joker... with riders "racing" each other as slowly as possible - Crump and Pedersen - so their country can parade a funny card. All we need is Ant and Dec. You stop believing in a sport when the part of the substance it once had is replaced by a cheap novelty move. Shame on you.

The Tactical Substitute rule was everything it said on the tin... it gave team managers ample opportunity to use their common sense at throwing in their best riders, onform men when the opportunity arose. It kept even the most one-sided match interesting. On the other hand, the Joker is complete opposite. Usually it depends on who's programmed in the heat as to whether it is actually worth putting a Black and White colour onto a rider's nog. Sometimes your best rider isn't in for another couple of heats, when you need to make the switch straight away. The rule has taken away some of the life from many a match, and I noticed this when I used to attend. The Golden Double rule rarely pumps up the crowd with the anticipation of the Tac Subs. To help save money by ditching the TS, I'm guessing many a fan has stopped attending - not because of simply the racing, but because the direction many matches is going is simply too predictable. As one fan stated, because a top rider was shoved into a certain heat against your second strings, it didn't make it a walkover. In fact, you used to feel proud when you middle-order put one over the opposing team's star introduction. The Golden Double makes speedway a kid's game, a have-two rolls of the dice sort of thing The TS was... well, it was tactical. It was simply more grown up... not X-Factor or The Gladiators stuff. Just my opinion folks! I have to wonder sometimes why managers exist these days, as there is only so much freedom they have during a match.

Thanks for that. However, just before my recording ended, it appeared Eurosport were about to continue with the remaining heats, think it may have been after 9 O' Clock.

I only recorded the first 10 heats before the meeting was temporarily suspended. My SKY box switched off before the second part. I am begging... if anybody out there has the full match on disc, would you be willing to supply me with a copy? I have a vast library of speedway meetings I could exchange or would meet the costs of disc and postage.

Stefan Danno failed a alcohol test prior to the final GP of the 2000 season and was subsequently banned for eight months. Darcy Ward just never seems to realise what he has at his feet and is a mini-me of Michael Lee, a bit self destructive when on the fringes of real greatness. Personally I don't take to these younger riders with so much potential. They tend to treat speedway as a bit of fun and would rather have a good time off track than put all energy into the sport. There are many riders still racing who put the sport first and foremost. Greg Hancock is one, and you can all call Nicki Pedersen... but these guys don't let outside influences interfere with their day jobs.

Yes, when I used to attend... was also a great crowd. I knew everyone of them by first name.

Last time I visited a speedway venue... and, judging by the crowds I see on live TV matches... the person I stood next to, was usually a 10-minute walk away in either direction.

Terry Tulloch... you don't even get names like that anymore, so the sport is less attractive for it! Remember him racing for Weymouth in the late-70s.

After a decade and half of live speedway on television, I would much rather all the heats put into a 60 minute package for airing later that night or that week. The novelty of live speedway has long passed and I hate the needless gaps between heats, makes me wanna get up and do something completely different. It is quite off putting. That's actually putting off this sad individual watching in the comfort, warmth of my own four walls. What does it say when there's 20 minute gaps between heats and you're freezing your Terry Tulloch's off in a breezy stadium?

I feel, and it is my opinion folks, that the first two or three years you watch speedway are the best. After that, you begin to notice the things that used to keep you entertained.. are no longer as entertaining as they used to be. It is like a perfume or air freshener, you get immune to it and the fizz isn't as attracting as it used to be. In saying that, give me the olden days over now. I'm not saying my taste or smell was better back then, but there was a sense of a more fun sport, no thrills or gizzmos on bikes or on riders' racing attire, just seemed to be more thrills on the 70 seconds over four laps. More unpredictable. Arguments will be endless, but the bygone days are more appealing when I want to read about speedway or watch footage.

What is the story? I don't trawl all threads and would like to know what Poole have done now..