Grachan

If he is applying for British Citizenship and taking the Life in the UK test then fine. Only if he becomes properly British though. I wouldn't agree with it if it's just down to racing licences.

I must admit, the more of this thread i read, the more sympathy I have with the protesting family as it's clear a lot of speedway folk don't give a toss if they upset other people.

Don't you see? That is precisely the type of attitude thst gets tracks shut down.

I don't know the ins ad outs of everything, but the couple involved are saying noise was going on at the stadium until 3am, and they tried to solve it amicably but couldn't. So, if that is how it was then maybe you have to have some sympathy with them as there may be more to this than just speedway noise.

Dave Lanning was certainly correct when he said in his commentary that it was something that would be talked about until time runs out in speedway. I do think the point of contact is relevant, by the way, as many people have long argued that there was no contact between the two but there was.

Ha ha. We could go round in circles like this all day. I don't think either of us are going to change our mind.

Carter was in front going into the corner.

I don't agree with that at all. To me, Carter has a perfectly good line until Bruce goes past and only after the contact does Carter go out of control. You could argue that it is the pressure from Carter that puts Bruce out of shape though - although Carter was ahead and Penhall went out of shape as he went past him. I'm not saying the decision is totally clear cut (although personally I think it was Penhall's fault) but that point of contact, and that fact that it is that contact which forces Carter off, is indisputable once you spot it. Perhaps it was the shape of the track - as you mentioned earlier - that forced Penhall to to the hard over steer. And, surely the famous footage from behind would prove that Carter never ran into Penhall prior to that.

Someone put a link to DVD quality video on here once. I think it was Steve Shovlar. It was when I watched it that I saw the contact. I had a sort of "OH MY GOD!!!" moment when I spotted it. I don't think Bruce's flick was an attempt to knock Carter off. It was probably just an attempt to keep the bike in line. But it was definitely that which knocked Carter off. Once you've seen it, you see it every time. The footage from ITV on Youtube is not good enough quality to see the contact. I know, because I put it there! It's from my old Betamax recording which had been copied several times over already. Seriously. You can see it. Penhall flicks his wheel out, and , bang, takes Carter's left handlebar. It being Penhall's fault is obviously just my opinion. Carter coming off as a result of a coming together of his handlebars and Penhall's back wheel is fact. The "new" footage from behind proves nothing. The original ITV footage shows it.

Have you seen the contact though? (And, yes, I know Peter Collins said that about the track shape)

Have you actually seen the moment of contact? If so and you still believe that then fair enough. Carter had room until Penhall flicked his back wheel out and knocked him off. It's there on the original video. I didn't see it for years because my own video wasn't such great quality, then a DVD quality video was posted here and I saw it. The contact is indisputable and once you see it you'll see it every time. Yeah. That's very true, although I'm not convinced Les would have won once in a frame to do so.

I'm certainly no apologist for Kenny Carter. It's just that is what happened. It wasn't a case of Carter not holding his own in a tough corner/race. It was a simple case of Penhall flicks out, takes out his handlebars and - boom - down he goes. I think the fact that Kenny Carter kept going on about him taking his leg away is why so many people don't see it. They are looking for Bruce taking away Carter's leg - which he didn't. That's why people think the alternate footage proves Penhall didn't take him out. Because it shows he didn't take his leg. The Penhall/Carter rivalry was great stuff. A shame there's nothing like that around these days.

All that clip does is fail to show the actual contact, which is Penhall swiping the tip of Carter's handlebar when he pulls a locker. You can see this on the original tv footage if you look. Penhall knocked Carter off.

Please explain what the Daily Mail has to do with anything. I don't understand your comment. You say this has nothing to do with immigration? I suggest you read the opening paragraph here: http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/

It's all about the government trying to doctor immigration figures so they can claim that immigration is down. the can't do anything about immigrants coming on from Europe and they can't get rid of illegal immigrants, so they penalise the people who try to do things legitimately such as speedway riders and people who are married to foreign nationals. It's not speedway's fault, although the new rules were in place last year and riders missed out so the clubs and riders should have been on the ball.

Not to forget we then had the next wave and lost World champions Pedersen, Jonsson and Gundersen to injury.

Penhall had him off. watch closely. That moment when he flicks the back wheel he swipes Carter's handlebars. It's one of those things that takes decades to notice, but once you see it then you see it every time. With regard Penhall's retirement, it did have a negative impact on the sport. Plus, Egon Muller's victory the following year was also given negative publicity by there being no World Champion in the British League for the second year running. It was certainly seen as a bad thing at the time.

Not sure if this is a genuine discussion or just people trying to have a go at Poole, but for what it's worth this is what I think. It's a bit of a transitional time at the moment and the new breed of youngsters are vying for position. We've had Chris Holder and Tai Woffinden winning. Emil, Darcy and Jarek haven't won a title. Until they have done that, then they can't have a genuine claim to be best in the world. League averages don't mean much. Hans Nielsen was far far better than Erik Gundersen in league meetings, but in terms of all time greatness they are equals because of Gundersen's world championship record. Riders like Tommy Knudsen, Phil Crump and Leigh Adams were probably more accomplished than Gary Havelock or Mark Loram. but in Worl;d terms they never achieved the ultimate goal so will never be all time greats when such things are discussed At the end of the day, it's World titles that matter. It's early days but you have to go with Tai this year bearing in mind Chris Holder missed so much of the season. Darcy may or may not get there too, but at the moment he's not proved he can win the World Championship so you can't say he is best in the World no matter how good he is in league meetings.

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The BSPA are an approved governing body. The sponsor would, presumably, be the club. The sponsor needs to obtain an endorsement from the BSPA. So it's the BSPA that are approved rather than the clubs themselves. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/working/tier5/creativeandsporting/#header2

It would come into effect when the old one expired.

Not if you apply for an extension on an existing one. That has to be done in the UK and done at least 4 weeks before the other one expires. http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/visas-immigration/visiting/sports/extend/

Definitely. You were charged so much a minute and had to listen to Peter York rabbiting on about how you've called the Speedway Hotline, which I already knew. I timed his introduction once. It was one minute and one second long. So you'd already paid for one minute before they even started to give any information.

Absolutely. It's absurd how people delight at how expensive their house is. I've just bought one. It's far too expensive. If the price goes up, well whoopie dooo for me. So I can sell it and make heaps of money - and then pay even more money for another one. The only benefit I can see from house prices going up is if you own more than one.

I was quite an early user. I remember searching for "Speedway Forum" at work just to see if there was one, and this is what I found. I think we had to rejoin two or three times before settling on this one, which is why all the low numbered users will have the same join date.