cyclone

Thought Dennis Andersson broke a leg on Sunday ?

What exactly are you hoping to happen, apart from a normal accident free race ?

Obviously a Senior moment - Bank Holiday Monday is 27th August.

Should have been rephrased "interested parties" instead of "takers" then

Ryan Fisher is not in Matthew Wethers Testimonial according to lineup displayed on Edinburgh website. http://www.edinburghmonarchs.co/news/article.asp?id=1196

Doubt if any visitors will take any points from Brough Park, including the Monarchs. Hope that an entertaining, injury free meeting is enjoyed by all.

What an ill thought out comment. Consider this :- Meeting allocations and schedules are set prior to the start of the season, and the actual field at that stage would not be known Only FIM approved tracks can hold this meeting in the UK. When you include young promising riders in your team, be prepared for them to be involved in the various U-21 FIM championships. FYI the real Speedway World does not begin and end at Somerset, so get over it, instead of embarrassingly whining about the situation.

If you care to check, Monarchs already agreed to reschedule the original earlier date for a visit to Ipswich, to accommodate your Promotion. Were no other Promotions approached, or have they refused also ? As Monarchs have a twelve day gap between fixtures, is it unreasonable for the riders to take advantage for a brief holiday break, given they only get paid when they ride ? Suggest you consider the full background before posting the likes of above. BTW the only issue that requires to be "forced" is some compulsory education for yourself to correctly spell the name of the Capital of Scotland

Well subsidised with Lottery Grants. Afraid Speedway is not a PC sport and has obstacles instead of incentives in the UK.

Old Meadowbank - basic, atmospheric, stadium, but tremendous track with optimum banking which was fast but with plenty of passing lines. Hyde Road was a close second.

The problem is others on here have chosen to ignore the contemporary evidence already provided by Ross Garrigan, and then use the contents of other sources, which as you say, were not written as reference books. I certainly am not criticising the Col Stewart book and it is unfortunate that an individual poster has inferred that it should be considered as a reference text with regard to the topic under discussion.

Details of source, date published, and content. This was what Ross Garrigan did, so others could validate if they wished to do so. To mention "press cuttings" without any details, can hardly be considered as a substantiated reference.

So as things stand at the moment they are unsubstantiated, unlike the 1923 details already provided on here, which you appear unwilling to mention, - why ?

What are the specific details of the press cuttings you refer to ?. In order to check their validity can you provide specific details of the source ,content, date published. Note that when someone provided details that quote content, source and publication date, around the time of the event, you choose to ignore these, because they do not fit with your unsubstantiated interpretation. As you appear unwilling to respond on the contemporary evidence provided, your research appears somewhat flawed when it comes to handling non anecdotal evidence available in 1923.

That link is just a review for a book and has no definitive references to contemporary published reports of 1923. Nothing there to substantiate your belief re JSH. Note you still have not responded to Ross Garrigan's factual references to the local newspaper article of December 1923, that indicates that the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club, not JSH, organised the event on 15/12/1923. Can you provide an independent reference of the actual event (e.g. another local newspaper report dated 1923, or details from the programme for the actual event) which contradicts Mr Garrigan's newspaper extract of 11/12/1923 ?

Ah more unsubstantiated quotes from 2011, whilst disregarding the the previously quoted newspaper reports of 1923, which contradict the above and like an ostrich with it's head in the sand, you still choose to ignore.

Fair enough, but how about answering the not unreasonable question, contained in the full post which you edited out for some reason known only to you. Did you do this to avoid answering the question, which I have now corrected, namely:- Why do you place such credence on quotes from books written years later, yet choose to ignore the contemporary local newspaper reports that Ross Garrigan has already referred to ? For example please explain why post 94 by Ross Garrigan on this thread , viz. :- “I have already mentioned that it wasn't Hoskins who "staged" the motor cycle racing which took place on the Maitland Showground on December 15, 1923. As proof, I submit this extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923, the week leading up to the said carnival. The "club" referred to is the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club: - "On Saturday next, the club will hold motor cycle races, in conjunction with other sports, under the electric light on the Maitland Showground in aid of the Maitland Orphanage and H.R.A. and H. Association. The races are open to all members of recognised motor cycle clubs.." That item appeared in the newspaper column of the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. Then followed the list of club officials who would conduct the racing”. should be ignored ? I await your reply.

Direct Question Jack :- Why do you place such credence on quotes from books written years later, yet choose to ignore the contemporary local newspaper reports that Ross Garrigan has already referred to ? For example please explain why post 94 by Ross Garrigan on the now closed Maitland Speedway Anniversary thread , viz. :- “I have already mentioned that it wasn't Hoskins who "staged" the motor cycle racing which took place on the Maitland Showground on December 15, 1923. As proof, I submit this extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923, the week leading up to the said carnival. The "club" referred to is the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club: - "On Saturday next, the club will hold motor cycle races, in conjunction with other sports, under the electric light on the Maitland Showground in aid of the Maitland Orphanage and H.R.A. and H. Association. The races are open to all members of recognised motor cycle clubs.." That item appeared in the newspaper column of the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. Then followed the list of club officials who would conduct the racing”. should be ignored ? I await your reply.

Well said I refer to the following from post 94 by Ross Garrigan on the now closed Maitland Speedway Anniversary thread :- “I have already mentioned that it wasn't Hoskins who "staged" the motor cycle racing which took place on the Maitland Showground on December 15, 1923. As proof, I submit this extract from a Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923, the week leading up to the said carnival. The "club" referred to is the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club: - "On Saturday next, the club will hold motor cycle races, in conjunction with other sports, under the electric light on the Maitland Showground in aid of the Maitland Orphanage and H.R.A. and H. Association. The races are open to all members of recognised motor cycle clubs.." That item appeared in the newspaper column of the Hamilton Motor Cycle Club. Then followed the list of club officials who would conduct the racing”. Is anyone on here seriously doubting the veracity of the above and if so let them state the documented facts and their source which show the above to be “spurious”. Just because Johnny Hoskins claimed to have invented Speedway, as alleged by some on here, that is not proof in itself and is certainly not supported by contemporary news reports of the time. BFD have you bothered to check the Hunter Valley newspaper dated 11/12/1923 or are you more concerned with trolling on here ?

No disgrace in acknowledging that you were unaware that Christian Weber had revised his view, based on contemporary evidence that was unearthed later. Christian's statement:- "I didn't know it, I admit that. All the reference works I read up to that time repeated the Hoskins' creation of speedway myth. Ten years on, I know that no-one has "invented" speedway, that the sport has evolved, and that it does not have a "Godfather". imo recognises the assiduous factual research carried out by others, particularly Ross Garrigan, & Norman Jacobs. No one is belittling Johnny Hoskins significant contribution to Speedway, but it would be disingenuous to continue to credit him with something that has now conclusively been shown not to be the case.

Usual standard reply I see, plenty sarcasm, but lack of meaningful response when politely asked to provide facts. I bow to The Red Herring Master

Re Peter Oakes piece in S Star of 17/3/2012, I would not disagree with his opening paragraph:- " The father of speedway racing - or at least that's what history decrees, although there is some question as to whethe he really did run the first-ever dirt track meeting in the world " Personally I place more credence on the contemporary evidence that Ross Garrigan has unearthed and referred to regarding motorcycling events in Australia in 1923 and earlier. Of course it is up to the individual to judge how much detail they require before making up their mind one way or another. Out of interest has anyone come across evidence that Johnny Hoskins publicly claimed to invent motorcycle Speedway ? I am aware that others (including his son Ian) have made this assertion, but IIRC, JSH mentions in one of his books organising such events at West Maitland, but does not go as far as to claim to be inventor of the sport. He may well be the Inventor, but if others wish to research other earlier avenues, why should their findings not be considered with an open mind ? For instance the invention of the telephone is commonly recognised as by one of my countrymen, Alexander Graham Bell, but some would contest that American, Elisha Gray, made the first phone.

The only person denigrating others on here is your good-self.. I see you have ducked out of responding to the question I asked in my original post, namely :- "As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ?" To infer that I have denigrated JSH achievements, please provide the proof on here. No one is compelled to accept the status quo and if someone wishes to question it's validity based on their research findings that's fair enough. However your sarcasm towards others with differing views and your unwillingness to provide reasoned counter arguments brings nothing to the topic. BTW I do not know whether or not JSH did invent motor cycle speedway and until incontrovertible proof is published one way or the other, I will keep an open mind on the subject.

I mentioned being wary of believing that a Promoter will always be infallible in recalling events and cited an example. Given I was responding to BFD implying that someone actively involved in Speedway (Bill Buckley) was likely know more about events in 1923 than the likes of Ross Garrigan, I assumed you would be able to follow the gist of my reply. Obviously I was mistaken in your case.

As you appear to be critical of the lengthy research carried out by the likes of Ross Garrigan and Norman Jacobs, could you name the "professional" historians that you place more credence on ? I would be wary of believing that a Promoter will always be infallible in recalling events. For example the race that Peter Craven lost his life, Ian Hoskins, the Edinburgh Promoter later stated that Craven started off a 20 yard handicap. This was incorrect as though it was intended to be the case, the crowd that evening voiced their displeasure at the proposed handicap, and all four riders started from the gate. How do I know ? - well I was standing right behind the starting gate at the front of the crowd ! That Ian Hoskins got this wrong can be corroborated by various people that were present that evening, including Mike Hunter (current Director of Edinburgh Speedway) and Jim Henry (current Clerk of the Course, at Armadale). Of course you might choose not to believe the word of "amateur" spectators