scribbler

Worrall can't be that bad - he's 'tasted' Pl level riding only months after sitting on a Speedway bike for the first time. Jonesy was under 16 Australian Champion in 1999 - 11 years age - yet he's still only in the NL. Has he ever been asked to ride in the PL (genuine question)

As far as I'm concerned this thread should stay - at least until there is confirmation from the Promotion that it was all legal and above board. All your protestations do not convice me one bit. In fact - methinks thou do protest too much...My reading of the Border Agency law is obviously different to yours... and I'm yet to be convinced...as - I suspect - are others...

I honestly thought - with all the hype - that Mark Jones was a young rider about 16 or 17... I've just looked on the BSPA website ... he's 24 - and was winning the under 16 Championships in Australia in 2001 & 2002!!! Perhaps he should have gone straight into the PL...so that youngsters (ie under 18's) of any nationality could get the opportunity to develop...

What a strange reaction I can understand when people ask moderators to lock a thread... But why would anybody want a thread removed after 60+ posts about a rider... Reading the extract I have 'cut and pasted' from WorkPermits.com I'm querying whether a 6 month permit actually does allow riders to ride - given that they are probably paid per point. As you (Wanna) stated earlier - Grant Tregoning did exactly the same last year... I'd like to see this thread remain open and stay here - and an official announcement about the type of visa/sports work permit that has been used for Tregoning, Jones and any other rider in the NL who came over here for six months at a time...

Taken from the WorkPermit.com site.. 'Who needs a work permit Sportspeople If you have a genuine invitation to participate in an organised sporting event, you may enter the UK for up to six months as a sportsperson. You would not need a work permit, but there are certain sporting activities that you would not be able to take part in. If you want to enter the UK for a holiday that involves a recreational sport then you can come as a visitor. You should enter as a business visitor if you want to: • take part in trials; but you should not be paid to do so; • negotiate contracts or discuss sponsorship; • make personnel appearances or promotions. As a professional or amateur sportsperson, you can participate in an event, series, or tournament as an individual competitor or as a member of a team. As an amateur or professional sportsperson, you can participate in a one-off charity sporting event, testimonial, benefit or exhibition match; you must not receive payment. As an amateur sportsperson, you can join a UK club that is mainly amateur, i.e. with only one or two professional players. You are allowed to accept board, lodging and reasonable expenses, but no pay. As a groom, you can accompany a horse in a competitive event or series of events. As a personal coach, you can accompany a sportsperson for an event or series of events. You can also come to officiate for an event or series of events. To come to the United Kingdom for other kinds of sporting activity, you need a work permit. You will need a work permit if you intend to: • base yourself in the United Kingdom for a sporting season • join or represent a British team and receive pay, • give coaching (unless you are personal coach accompanying a sportsperson for a specific event or series of events) • stay more than 6 months. I'm a bit confused because I read it that if he has/had a work permit he could stay for more than 6 months... What do others think?

Just googled that BFD David!!!

My complaint has been about the (seeming)incompetence of the BSPA and promotion... My comment about Aussies and the NDL that BFD managed to find is because these confusions about who is Aussie - who is Aussie but can use patriality...and then ride for Australia - and now who is riding on the right visa... Frusration about the status of riders gets one feeling that it would be easier for all if there were only Brits in the League. It doesn't make me a 'little Englander' - it makes me a Speedway supporter - worried about the silence on the matter and how all these issues are affecting the sport at this level. The Tyson Nelson affair wasn't Speedways finest hour BTW do Aussies normally call females 'Old mate'

BFD why not re-read the posts in this thread - including the one about my links to Australian Speedway (and to BobC - also a friend of the Guasco family). My own(scribbled ) gripes have been against the BSPA and promoters who (possibly) made wrong decisions about who to include in teams. The riders, such as Tyson Nelson, may or may not be in the wrong. They're young, enthusiastic kids wanting to ride Speedway and may or may not have been aware of the implications of riding on the wrong visa. The adults in all this - the BSPA and promoters - should know the rules, and should know if the rules have been broken... I await their comments with interest... BTW BFD - your posts can be read - if one so wishes - as anti-Brit...

I think that timing is everything... Tyson Nelson did his one meeting half way through the season. Any other Aussie has begun the season with a team - and now we see one returning home before the end of the season. I'd presume that there would have been shouting at the beginning of the season if riders returning home dates were known. The BSPA and promoters really do underestimate supporters... we can Google Borders Agency information - we can suss out irregularities - we can see weaknesses/inconsistencies in decisions made by the BSPA - we can work out when promoters are (maybe) 'pulling a fast one'. Before these Forums promoters and the BSPA may have been able to 'work things out between themselves' - but nowadays supporters have ways of communicating and finding out their own information - and are therefore less gullible and more informed...

But why would a rider wish to return home before the end of a season Especially - why would a rider wish to return home before the end of the season when his team could be in with a chance of winning the League and/or winning the playoffs - and the Cup (?) I can't see a youngster willingly going home and missing out on possible glory - or willing (possibly) messing up his team's chances of honours...

There is one explanation that I can think of... I wonder whether the Borders Agency have (recently?)changed the rules Of course it should be up to the BSPA to keep up to date with any changes - and to check visas. As I've previously stated - if a photocopy of each rider's visa was logged at the BSPA there would be none of these concerns or discrepancies. Perhaps thats too simple and logical...

Why can't I blame Newport promotion - and Mark Jones - if Newport are found to have been using a rider illegally? Mildenhall folding has nothing to do with the use of a (possible) illegal rider...

Me too - I'm still in contact with the widow of Gordon Guasco(GG)40 years after his death - on a Speedway bike, riding in Australia. He was an Australian who used to ride for Poole Pirates (and other teams) and was my next door neighbour when he rode for them. Being critical of the way rules are being manipulated makes me a speedway supporter... not a Little Englander...

No...Honest law-abiding supporters who do not like to see British laws broken. If they'd come over on the correct visas we couldn't comment... And by breaking these British laws the riders might never be able to ride in Britain again - because they have been helped by promoters to break the laws of the land. I actually feel sorry for these very young riders who probably would not know the consequences of their actions - unless told by the promotions so eager to use them...

Blame it on greedy promoters who will do anything to have a winning team... and the BSPA who do not govern - but just rely on the honesty of promoters. The supporters are innocent in all this... we trust our promoters to be honest... I'd rather my team be bottom of the League honestly - than higher than that by using (known to the promotion) illegal riders. It is the BSPA and some promoters who are bringing the sport into disrepute...

The BSPA really need to be checking these visas. Surely promoters should be required to photocopy visas and send emails/letters to the BSPA to prove the eligibility of their riders. Promoters should know what sort of visa their rider holds when signing them. I'm presuming that no promoter has questioned visas because they would presume that their fellow promoters were honest... There could be a lot of adjustments to be made - and a lot of meetings won or lost because of the illegal use of riders if what 21st Century Heahten says is true. The promoters really should be more careful because they could damage the career of a rider - being unable to ride in the UK - if laws are found to be broken. Yet another reason for a 'Brits only' in the National Development League... IMHO...

Mildenhall folded - Tim Webster lost his place at Newport to a Mildenhall rider. When Mark Jones goes back home Tim Webster will (possibly/probably) get a place back in the Newport team. It's the overlap between Mildenhall folding and Mark Jones going home that has meant that Tim Webster has lost his team place. If it was really not the fault of Mark Jones being in the team why wasn't he (Mark) sidelined (because he is going home) rather than Tim Webster???

Both are part of a team - not individual riders - and still have team places with Scunthorpe Saints. I trust that Scunthorpe management know what they are doing... and usually people support their team first, and then individual riders...

Edited mine

Not in the National Development League they didn't... BTW - The under 21 GB Team ... of the 5 riders 3 of the riders have ridden for the Conference Team of Scunthorpe Scorpions Is that enough proof that Scunthorpe 'bring on the Brits'

No - It just shows how infrequently you visit the NDL section... June - like many of us - is very much interested in the development of British riders. Like others of us who are regulars on this forum she also asks questions when she doesn't understand situations... hoping to get answers, rather than being attacked by someone who hasn't read the post in the way it was intended. Again - like many of us June probably has a 'soft spot' for Buxton, who have always been an honest stand alone club. I'm personally so pleased for Buxton that this season is going so well for them...

Does the bit I have bolded mean that Newport don't want to use Tim Webster - but they don't want to let the guy ride for anyone else either... Is anyone else finding it sad that these young British riders are so desperate to ride that they're coming on here to advertse the fact. So much has been said that British lads don't seem to want to ride ... perhaps people can now see the effort that is being made...

Attack the post not the poster please... My comments are how I perceive them. I would be sorry to lose the Buccs - but I am equally aware that Buxton, for one, are a well respected, well run club and I tend to use them as an example of how an NDL Speedway club should be run...

I haven't been able to time visits to Wimbourne Road with visits to my parents (I followed Poole Pirates in the 1970s) but I presume that complaints about the track have been justified if the same care is not taken as with an EL meeting... and the penny-piching on programmes... Some Promoters run at a loss to gain the benefits of bringing on and signing potential riders for their other team. Unfortunately Poole is not known for using British riders... Buxton should held up as an example of how to run an NDL team. They do not over pay riders and they must treat them fairly otherwise nobody would ride for them - and look how successful they are this season... and they deserve it! So I suppose that I do still blame Matt... expecting to pay for success without respecting supporters enough to sell them decent programmes and not giving riders or supporters a decently prepared track to watch/ride...