Why The Championship is dependent on there being a Premiership

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

I'm alright Jack - our model is working....

It's a Premiership problem....

Why should we help sort it out....

Etc etc 

Well look at the facts of the funding and decide for yourself who will be left riding in the Championship at the same rates with no Premiership 

Take you typical double upper Championship heat leader riding as second string in the Premiership 

Approx 30 meetings in each league , 130-140 rides in each scoring approx 250 points in Premiership and 300 points in Championship.  Averages approx 6.50/8.50

For the sake of ease of calculation pay per point is £200 in Premiership and £100 in Championship (someone else can qualify how accurate that may be)

Income from Premiership £50,000

Income from Championship £30,000

Estimate of cost £20,000 initial plus season running costs £10,000 - total £30,000

Rider net profit £50,000

No Premiership - £50,000 down. Offset by reduced costs say £10,000 Generous allowance for extra 10 Championship meetings in bigger league £10,000

Rider net profit £20,000 - less than equivalent for minimum wage job

So there is already a significant question mark over the number of riders being sufficient to make a feasible league

How many seeing the above simply say no thanks?

It wouldn't need many to make that choice to render the whole set up unworkable

As the saying goes - Show me I'm wrong!

[SteveLyric2]

6 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I'm alright Jack - our model is working....

It's a Premiership problem....

Why should we help sort it out....

Etc etc 

Well look at the facts of the funding and decide for yourself who will be left riding in the Championship at the same rates with no Premiership 

Take you typical double upper Championship heat leader riding as second string in the Premiership 

Approx 30 meetings in each league , 130-140 rides in each scoring approx 250 points in Premiership and 300 points in Championship.  Averages approx 6.50/8.50

For the sake of ease of calculation pay per point is £200 in Premiership and £100 in Championship (someone else can qualify how accurate that may be)

Income from Premiership £50,000

Income from Championship £30,000

Estimate of cost £20,000 initial plus season running costs £10,000 - total £30,000

Rider net profit £50,000

No Premiership - £50,000 down. Offset by reduced costs say £10,000 Generous allowance for extra 10 Championship meetings in bigger league £10,000

Rider net profit £20,000 - less than equivalent for minimum wage job

So there is already a significant question mark over the number of riders being sufficient to make a feasible league

How many seeing the above simply say no thanks?

It wouldn't need many to make that choice to render the whole set up unworkable

As the saying goes - Show me I'm wrong!

How is it the same number of meetings in both Championship and Premiership? Or have I misunderstood?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

11 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

How is it the same number of meetings in both Championship and Premiership? Or have I misunderstood?

Check the 2025 records

PREM 2H 2A plus KOCup - 24 plus 4to6

CHAMP 1H 1A plus KoCup and BSN Series 16+4+4to6

Correct by no more than a couple for either

Guest appearances not taken into account

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

16 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

How is it the same number of meetings in both Championship and Premiership? Or have I misunderstood?

Easy to select and plug in any rider you wish and check the reality

[Glen]

The good times for some will come to an end and it is likely going to be a complete reset.

Faced with no speedway and get a ‘proper’ job I wonder which one they will choose.  
Agreed older riders might look to their future more and decide it’s not for them but who’s to say they won’t give it a go and find a way to make it pay.

[Ben91]

Where are you getting your figures from? Appreciate your post and explanation don’t get me wrong, but unless the figures are facts then it’s just conjecture. 

I think the ultimate issue is that the sport can’t justify being professional/full time here. Riders need to get on board with that. Either ride where you can for what you’re offered, make it work, go part-time or get a proper job. 

All of us fans have to cut our cloth accordingly in life. But the promoters and riders seemingly don’t have to do that. 

[IainB]

2 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I'm alright Jack - our model is working....

It's a Premiership problem....

Why should we help sort it out....

Etc etc 

Well look at the facts of the funding and decide for yourself who will be left riding in the Championship at the same rates with no Premiership 

Take you typical double upper Championship heat leader riding as second string in the Premiership 

Approx 30 meetings in each league , 130-140 rides in each scoring approx 250 points in Premiership and 300 points in Championship.  Averages approx 6.50/8.50

For the sake of ease of calculation pay per point is £200 in Premiership and £100 in Championship (someone else can qualify how accurate that may be)

Income from Premiership £50,000

Income from Championship £30,000

Estimate of cost £20,000 initial plus season running costs £10,000 - total £30,000

Rider net profit £50,000

No Premiership - £50,000 down. Offset by reduced costs say £10,000 Generous allowance for extra 10 Championship meetings in bigger league £10,000

Rider net profit £20,000 - less than equivalent for minimum wage job

So there is already a significant question mark over the number of riders being sufficient to make a feasible league

How many seeing the above simply say no thanks?

It wouldn't need many to make that choice to render the whole set up unworkable

As the saying goes - Show me I'm wrong!

You say look at the facts and then produce a load of estimates, they are not facts my friend. 

If you look at my list of rider appearances you'll see that Luke Harrison was top with 48, for the likes of King, Harris & Lawson it was around 44.

The only fact is apart from those appearance numbers which are in the public domain everything else is guess work. 

A 14 team league would have provided 26 league meetings, a cup competition, at least 2 meetings and maybe a 4's or something that brings you to at least 32. A cup run and play off meetings and you could be up to around the 40-44 meetings that they're currently doing. 

There's no doubt in my mind that some kind of cost cap also needs to be in place as regards what is spent on machinery. 

[therefused]

3 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Well look at the facts

where are the facts?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

30 minutes ago, Ben91 said:

Where are you getting your figures from? Appreciate your post and explanation don’t get me wrong, but unless the figures are facts then it’s just conjecture. 

I think the ultimate issue is that the sport can’t justify being professional/full time here. Riders need to get on board with that. Either ride where you can for what you’re offered, make it work, go part-time or get a proper job. 

All of us fans have to cut our cloth accordingly in life. But the promoters and riders seemingly don’t have to do that. 

 

12 minutes ago, IainB said:

You say look at the facts and then produce a load of estimates, they are not facts my friend. 

If you look at my list of rider appearances you'll see that Luke Harrison was top with 48, for the likes of King, Harris & Lawson it was around 44.

The only fact is apart from those appearance numbers which are in the public domain everything else is guess work. 

A 14 team league would have provided 26 league meetings, a cup competition, at least 2 meetings and maybe a 4's or something that brings you to at least 32. A cup run and play off meetings and you could be up to around the 40-44 meetings that they're currently doing. 

There's no doubt in my mind that some kind of cost cap also needs to be in place as regards what is spent on machinery. 

Educated estimates - as I said show me I'm wrong - what do you think the figures are ? If you don't thinknits close to factual then put me right....

Iain I factored in 10 extra meetings already to mitigate some of the reduction

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

4 minutes ago, therefused said:

where are the facts?

Did you read my post? Show me im wrong!

If they are not facts put me right - at least make some effort

Typical choice to just shout "You're wrong" with no input back as to why and what is right/wrong

[IainB]

3 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

 

Educated estimates - as I said show me I'm wrong - what do you think the figures are ? If you don't thinknits close to factual then put me right....

Iain I factored in 10 extra meetings already to mitigate some of the reduction

Don't have a Scooby Doo mate, we all know that rider payments and machinery costs are more closely guarded than state secrets!

As the rumour currently stands, a 9 team CL and 5 team PL, there's going to be even less meetings for riders with less team spots taken up by the more established riders meaning less opportunities for the kids further accelerating the decline of the sport. 

[therefused]

33 minutes ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Did you read my post? Show me im wrong!

yes i did, maybe you can change it to 'educated estimates' like you did in one of the replies?

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Just now, therefused said:

yes i did, maybe you can change it to 'educated estimates' like you did in one of the replies?

But still no input beyond pedantry...

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

Perhaps the one poster likely to have the most insight as to how close I am in my calculated 'estimates' is The Dean Machine....

[secsy1]

I will not dispute any of your estimates relating to alleged rider income or expenses, but all relates to the rider being full time I assume?

Reality sucks and for any rider to assume a full time income from speedway in Britain in todays present climate has not done their sums on viability.

Whether or not their is a Premiership and a Championship, only a potential few will make ends meet, unless they have a generous sponsorship deal.

With little interest, the dwindling fan base is a reality and they actually pay the riders.

Personally I now only watch NDL and NDT matches and could not care less about over paid, alleged top riders making up the numbers at various Premier teams.

[dontforgetthefueltapsbruv]

1 hour ago, secsy1 said:

I will not dispute any of your estimates relating to alleged rider income or expenses, but all relates to the rider being full time I assume?

Reality sucks and for any rider to assume a full time income from speedway in Britain in todays present climate has not done their sums on viability.

Whether or not their is a Premiership and a Championship, only a potential few will make ends meet, unless they have a generous sponsorship deal.

With little interest, the dwindling fan base is a reality and they actually pay the riders.

Personally I now only watch NDL and NDT matches and could not care less about over paid, alleged top riders making up the numbers at various Premier teams.

Thanks for you outlook

Yes it is assuming full time - because they are - Riding 3-4 times a week from Plymouth to Glasgow I'd counter is more than a standard full time commitment

Re NDL/NDT - that's exactly what will be left so you will remain satisfied and I'm pleased for you

The sport will cease to be as such and instead be a hobby/pass time

[SpeedwaySlider72]

6 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

I'm alright Jack - our model is working....

It's a Premiership problem....

Should a rider only be able to ride in one league then their income will of course reduce, but that does not make the leagues dependent on each other. There are many riders that currently get by only riding in one league and using their spare time to seek additional income from elsewhere. To say the Championship needs the Premiership would be the same as saying the Championship needs Tesco/Amazon/the local garage/wherever the rider may seek a secondary income.

In your example, a rider riding Championship only will make £20,000. It should be remembered that the season lasts about 6 months now, maybe 7 at a squeak. Is £20,000 for half a year's work not a decent return?

Bearing in mind that during this 6 months, the rider may only have to ride approximately once a week on average and allowing generously another day a week for bike maintenance then the £20,000 starts to sound like not too bad an amount to be able to extract from a sport on the brink of bankruptcy.

I place no blame at the door of riders on this front but both promoters and riders need to be realistic. Many riders ride one league and work hard to fund their careers through other means. Simon Lambert is a great example of this and all the credit to him.

[SteveLyric2]

5 hours ago, dontforgetthefueltapsbruv said:

Easy to select and plug in any rider you wish and check the reality

Another 'reality' is that there is far greater variety for the fans with the Championship fixtures, as well as being marginally cheaper, plus fans are able to see around 30- 40% of the same riders as in the Premiership ( it maybe higher as I haven't done the actual calculation). Attendances for Championship meetings are also mainly good ie Glasgow, Poole, Oxford, Redcar, so what's not to like?!

[Sargent10]

8 minutes ago, SpeedwaySlider72 said:

Should a rider only be able to ride in one league then their income will of course reduce, but that does not make the leagues dependent on each other. There are many riders that currently get by only riding in one league and using their spare time to seek additional income from elsewhere. To say the Championship needs the Premiership would be the same as saying the Championship needs Tesco/Amazon/the local garage/wherever the rider may seek a secondary income.

In your example, a rider riding Championship only will make £20,000. It should be remembered that the season lasts about 6 months now, maybe 7 at a squeak. Is £20,000 for half a year's work not a decent return?

Bearing in mind that during this 6 months, the rider may only have to ride approximately once a week on average and allowing generously another day a week for bike maintenance then the £20,000 starts to sound like not too bad an amount to be able to extract from a sport on the brink of bankruptcy.

I place no blame at the door of riders on this front but both promoters and riders need to be realistic. Many riders ride one league and work hard to fund their careers through other means. Simon Lambert is a great example of this and all the credit to him.

Personally I think that’s exactly correct, speedway season last approximately 6/7 months, April can be busy or quiet, September can be the same, so that’s 4/5 months probably busy, however, riders class themselves as professional self employed, I’m professional self employed building worker, now I’m not having a pop at any rider but I’m working all year round and have to so what is wrong with these guys having a 2nd job? Yes some weeks they might have a few meetings on, take holidays from other job, etc, most have a guy who is on the spanners being full time or near as, stop that and have him on a meeting basis, and do the bikes when you can, because that’s the only way this is going to work, years ago riders did it, roads were certainly not as good to travel on so riders spent longer getting there and back but still got up for work , it’s about wanting it or not and only they can decide, but working 5/6 months and trying to earn enough for 12 ain’t possible 

[1 valve]

3 minutes ago, SteveLyric2 said:

Another 'reality' is that there is far greater variety for the fans with the Championship fixtures, as well as being marginally cheaper, plus fans are able to see around 30- 40% of the same riders as in the Premiership ( it maybe higher as I haven't done the actual calculation). Attendances for Championship meetings are also mainly good ie Glasgow, Poole, Oxford, Redcar, so what's not to like?!

Good point. As we only see 30 or 40% of current Premier league riders in the Championship why do championship clubs charge so much I.e. 85/90% of Prem prices