Team Building For 2011

[Jayne 312]

Well Ben you and I do not always see eye to eye on many issues but this time we are in total agreement.

 

Had the points limit been lower last season then we would perhaps not have lost a club through running out of money and there would have been more quality between the teams.

 

Several Promoters have expressed doubts to me about running next season with anything near to the present points limit.

 

Malcolm Vasey

 

 

Don't think you can blame the points limit for that Malcolm more likely the fact that riders are paid above the agreed pay scale and the gates aren't there to support it.

[Swift Saint 186]

Don't think you can blame the points limit for that Malcolm more likely the fact that riders are paid above the agreed pay scale and the gates aren't there to support it.

 

Yes but surely if the points limit was lower teams would not feel the need to recruit PL standard riders at inflated prices.

 

There would also be a market amongst the riders and that would help keep wages demanded lower.

 

The points limit has to come down for the League to survive. It has got out of hand and I am sure you realise that.

 

Also less non-British riders only those who will ultimately ride for Great Britain in my view.

 

There are stacks of riders in the various Amateur Meetings that would love to race regularly.

 

Even with a points limit of 36 that is less than one heat leader replaced by a three pointer.

 

Malcolm Vasey

Edited September 16, 2010 by Proud Potter

[Jayne 312]

Yes but surely if the points limit was lower teams would not feel the need to recruit PL standard riders at inflated prices.

 

There would also be a market amongst the riders and that would help keep wages demanded lower.

 

The points limit has to come down for the League to survive. It has got out of hand and I am sure you realise that.

 

Also less non-British riders only those who will ultimately ride for Great Britain in my view.

 

There are stacks of riders in the various Amateur Meetings that would love to race regularly.

 

Even with a points limit of 36 that is less than one heat leader replaced by a three pointer.

 

Malcolm Vasey

 

 

I personally think that 36 is far too low. Lowering the points limit in the EL hasn't really helped with costs in fact I dont think it will have too much effect on costs in the NL if anything it will push the lower averaged riders demands up because they will be more in demand especially if they are on false averages. Its swings and roundabouts really you push the top guys out in theory to save money but then the lower guys become more valuable. If you listen to the comments made regarding the EL and the lowering of the points limit it has made the product less competitive as the standard is not as high but the costs do not reflect the standard of the league which some feel isn't that much higher than the PL. I agree the league needs a major shake up as costs are spiralling both for riders and promoters how we do that though is anyones guess.

 

As for the Australians in the league you can only have two per club anyway so dont think this needs to be limited any further. What does need to be done though is stringent policing of such riders so that there is no suggestion of ineligible riders competing. I personally just dont see where all the extra riders are coming from if you ban the aussies and lower the points limit drastically. There are only a handful of riders competing in the 500cc class of the U15s this year and very few riders on the sidelines who want to or are able to hold down a team spot.

[Mr S Bear 10]

The only Commonwealth/Australian riders who are only allowed to ride in the NL for two years are those who do not have a patrially/ancestry visa. To get a rhis type of visa one of their grandparents must have been was born in the UK or in the case of grandparents born in what is now the Irish Republic born prior to 1922. To find out more about visa requirements see UKBA web site, www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk or the Mark Jones topic. All other Australian/Commonwealth riders I beleive should be tier 5 permit holders under the youth mobility scheme and can only ride for two years in NL, can not ride in PL/EL and must ride as amateurs.

The only people saying that Australians will be banned in the NL in 2011 are Newport in this weeks Speedway Star and they are saying " we are not allowed to use Australians" so maybe the ban only apply to Welsh teams maybe as a form of punishment for wrong doing in 2010, see Mark Jones topic, and other teams may be subject to a similar ban if the BSPA take a close look at riders permits/visas/passports maybe something they should have done prior to riders taking part in the NL as part of their role as a governering body appointed by the UKBA to police the immigration rules in speedway on thir behalf rather than it appears taking the words of promoters as gospel.

[greyhoundp 990]

21st, i have always been in favour of 1 experienced rider in every team, but when you start to have 2/3 riders over say 25 in a NL Team then whats the point, they are not going to improve,and if they are not of PL standard by that age, then i am sorry, and it may seem harsh but they should not clog up the system for youngsters who are trying to make there way in the sport.

 

Costs as jayne says they need to be brought down, but how it is done is another matter, will Teams agree to adhere to any points or expences limit, and more pertinently if they do who will police it..? YES there should be a points and expences limit, if Teams dont want to stick to it, then they should ride in the PL, policing it is an ENTIRELY different matter.

Edited September 17, 2010 by greyhoundp

[RHayes 72]

Here's my attempt

 

- 1 rider over 25 years of age

- 1 D/U Rider allowed in each team

- 6 riders between the ages of 15 - 24

- 2 riders from the commonwealth

- 2 riders at reserve which are under 20 years of age

 

Points Limit of 40.00

 

If Plymouth go PL and if Bournemouth don't run, hopefully they will and Mildenhall come back then that should 8 or 9 teams from memory so 16/18 fixtures.

 

- Team who tops table wins the league after all the fixtures wins the league

- No play offs to decide the league title

- Cut off date for league fixtures is the 30th September

- League season begins first weekend of April (excluding challenge matches)

- Top 4 compete for the National Shield over 2 home and away legs, winners of both semi finals go through to the final and race over 2 legs

- Keep the KOC & National Trophy

- All teams should compete in the NL Pairs and NL Fours

- NLRC should be held at a neutral venue i.e Stoke

- 1 Home and away fixture

Edited September 17, 2010 by LFC1892

[montie 1,273]

but when you start to have 2/3 riders over say 25 in a NL Team then whats the point, they are not going to improve,and if they are not of PL standard by that age, then i am sorry, and it may seem harsh but they should not clog up the system for youngsters who are trying to make there way in the sport.

 

 

 

What if some british road racer or moto x rider gets to the age of 25 and thinks sod it,im going to race speedway??????????????

Edited September 17, 2010 by montie

[torpointfanatic22 268]

What if some british road racer or moto x rider gets to the age of 25 and thinks sod it,im going to race speedway??????????????

 

Very good point this. There have been a few riders who have done exactly this. Seemond Stephens didn't start speedway until he was in his 30's albeit he rode several years at PL before dropping down to the NL. But Scott Anderson is a classic example of when he was up at Scunny. When the grading system was in place the BSPA penalised riders over 30 if my memory serves me correctly and Scott had he grade raised by at least 1 point despite only having limited experience, (Malc can probably correct me on that). Anyway whilst I totally agree with limiting the riders over 25 in each team, it should be based on experience rather than age. So maybe only 1 rider over 25 with minimum 3 years experience or something like that.

Edited September 18, 2010 by torpointfanatic22

[greyhoundp 990]

What if some british road racer or moto x rider gets to the age of 25 and thinks sod it,im going to race speedway??????????????

 

Simple...Then they bugger off to the Pl or El..

[montie 1,273]

What if some british road racer or moto x rider gets to the age of 25 and thinks sod it,im going to race speedway??????????????

 

Simple...Then they bugger off to the Pl or El..

 

Dumb ass response!!! is the league meant ofr rider to learn the trade and get a start??

[Scunny Stag 72]

The main reason the points limit has to come down significantly is to create more opportunities for young British riders and for those who are using the low numbers in the 500cc class of the U-15 as a reason for not doing this please look at the riders either too old or too young for the rather narrow 500cc U-15 class.

 

The reality is we are only talking about substituting one experienced rider with one junior so perhaps ten riders in the whole country.

 

Of course there is also an argument that if there were more opportunities for young riders in the National League then there would be more riders in the U-15 Championship.

[shippy22 60]

From a team strength point of view, I think this years National League has worked well. There are no super strong teams, and no very weak teams, which there have been in many seasons in the past.

 

Some people have suggested only allowing 1 rider over 25 in each team. Apart from being very unfair on riders who start later, it would also result in a bigger difference between the stronger and weaker teams, and also not reduce the costs.

 

Thers are only a certain number of 6.00 point and higher riders under 25, and the better ones would be able to demand higher points money, knowing they would be even more valuable than they are at the moment.

 

Some teams could struggle to put out a competitive team. For example, Isle Of Wight would have to lose 3 riders from Danny Warwick, Lee Smethills, Dean Felton and Nick Simmons. Where would the replacements come from ?. Bearing in mind that other teams would also need more riders under 25, and the richer teams would probably snap up the best ones.

This could result in teams like IOW having a very weak side, losing support, and eventually closing. How would that help the National League??

[Jayne 312]

Well put Shippy22. This was part of the point I was making in that there are just not enough riders sat on the sidelines to replace the older riders. Reducing the points limit drastically only places a higher price on those with low averages and the potential to improve. It also makes the product we are trying to sell weaker. There are lots of comments in the EL section about supporters not paying inflated prices for inferior products, you have to get the balance right between being competitive and offering opportunities for 'new blood'in order to retain the support.

[gsmills 0]

its ok calling for bans on this and bans on that, but the basic problem is that the costs to ride speedway are just beyond most peoples pocket, i would love to see all british riders and good crowds supporting, but its not happening,we have to ask why do aussie produce so many good youngsters? simple our grass roots is total rubbish, scunny ,rye and sittingbourne poss are the only tracks to train on regular and its not cheap i know.Talk to motocrossers and they cant beleive £35 .00 for ten minutes racing, they just dont think it value for money, im not taking away from the hard work of many people out there but why is the sky money not coming down to the bottom level somebody tell me what the bspa actually do,

[June 203]

I'd like to see an all british N/L . our youngsters deserve a chance to get to the top by going through the leagues. Foreign youngsters have their chances in their own countries. I'd like to see all foreigners starting in the prem. If the NL was all british to start off, with riders at differing levels it could work. For beginners to the sport there should be a level they have to achieve befor entering as a reserve. That would mean we would not have to bar any british lads from this league, however I think there should be a top level when they should go prem. I think a team average of 36 could work.; No1,8pts max with Nos.6 & 7 3pts ea. for team building.