PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 IRIS ... that's just another opinion. Keep saying this until I am blue in the face: others, including ex-riders, current referees, fans, etc, etc, don't believe that Ackroyd got it wrong. Which simply underlines the fact that it wasn't an open and cut case. If the referee deems that a rider has deliberately tried to get a race restarted he will exclude that rider. Ackroyd did not believe that was what happened. I agree with him. You don't. And nothing will change that. FOR the record I didn't say Vincent doesn't matter, whether he buys Speedway Star or not. I simply stated that ultimately the only one who mattered was the referee. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) Sometimes Magazines and there opinions follow the official line! They do not want to upset the apple cart etc. (For various reasons) Holder is a worthy champion (I take nothing away from him) I am more annoyed with the vague rules (open to interpretation etc) and the poor behaviour of Holders hangers on! (We all know if Nikki had done what Holder had done on track it may well have been different! We all know if Nikki and his crew had acted like Holder and his crew "pushing and shoving etc!" there would have been major uproar. The vague rules are the cause of the divided opinion! unsatisfactory start?!? No red light so the start was seen as fine?! Edited October 8, 2012 by Mixy230 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Terry 1,319 Posted October 8, 2012 Slightly off topic, but why are some people incapable of spelling the name of the world number 2 correctly? Nicki simples! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 Sometimes Magazines and there opinions follow the official line! They do not want to upset the apple cart etc. (For various reasons) Holder is a worthy champion (I take nothing away from him) I am more annoyed with the vague rules (open to interpretation etc) and the poor behaviour of Holders hangers on! (We all know if Nikki had done what Holder had done on track it may well have been different! We all know if Nikki and his crew had acted like Holder and his crew "pushing and shoving etc!" there would have been major uproar. The vague rules are the cause of the divided opinion! unsatisfactory start?!? No red light so the start was seen as fine?! BUT the 'start" does include what happens in the first corner and the red lights did come on. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vincent Blachshadow 2,937 Posted October 8, 2012 Sometimes Magazines and there opinions follow the official line! They do not want to upset the apple cart etc. (For various reasons) Holder is a worthy champion (I take nothing away from him) I am more annoyed with the vague rules (open to interpretation etc) and the poor behaviour of Holders hangers on! (We all know if Nikki had done what Holder had done on track it may well have been different! We all know if Nikki and his crew had acted like Holder and his crew "pushing and shoving etc!" there would have been major uproar. The vague rules are the cause of the divided opinion! unsatisfactory start?!? No red light so the start was seen as fine?! Exactly. Sometimes barging or running into another rider at or near the start culminates in an incident on the first bend which could and should be brought back as an unsatisfactory start. This was not such an incident, the riders got away from the tapes and the starting gate area satisfactorally. The initial incident was on the first bend. As the thread title suggests, Ackroyd stuck with the easy option and called all 4 back. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 And if Nicki had walked straight off the track there would have been no pushing and shoving. As posted before that do not condone what happened by the pit gate but it was reactive no proactive and the direct result of Nicki deciding to confront Holder there and then so he cannot be entirely blameless on that score either. May be see that I am having a go at Nicki but I'm not. The scuffle, as with the first bend incident, was six of one and half a dozen of the other. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 Philip The Start only includes the first corner if the Ref decides it does! Its at his descretion! (No rule to say when the start ends!) The scuffle! Well we all play the gamesmanship part of life! (Nikki) We do not all play the near assault by the Holder crew! (Condone that at your peril) watch it again, it was appalling and then Chris had to get involved! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
foreverblue 6,093 Posted October 8, 2012 And if Nicki had walked straight off the track there would have been no pushing and shoving. As posted before that do not condone what happened by the pit gate but it was reactive no proactive and the direct result of Nicki deciding to confront Holder there and then so he cannot be entirely blameless on that score either. May be see that I am having a go at Nicki but I'm not. The scuffle, as with the first bend incident, was six of one and half a dozen of the other. Exactly which is why all 4 back was the right call and Jason Crump was a great pal to Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
speedy den boy 19 Posted October 8, 2012 (edited) In all my years in speedway, i thought id seen it all with the way rules are applied, but Phil you have left me gobsmacked in what you are saying,it may well be true but when was this rule last put into motion on the 1st bend.So you should tell nigel pearson be careful with his wording if the rider tangle on the 1st bend,Nigel is going to be calling a lot more unsat starts is he? To me an unsat start is a rider jumping or the tapes not goin up,or riders tangle before the 30 metre line,what you are saying is new to me.Did you speak to Eric Gundersen ,he was fuming and he should know a thing or 2 about the starts. Edited October 8, 2012 by speedy den boy Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
frigbo 518 Posted October 8, 2012 IF you haven't grasped that by now you never will. And your analogy above doesn't really work because Holder didn't break the rules. Had he done so he would have been excluded. But he didn't and wasn't. Are you being deliberately obtuse???!!! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 Listen to Philip, he appears to know all the rules and have the only opinion that matters! (Along with the Ref!) The Start ends when the Ref decides it does! All 4 back if he fancies it! The start is an undeterminate amount of distance from the start to whenever?????????? lol Note the commentators and pundits who all said Holder was lucky to be allowed back in! Suprising how people do not sit on the fence when their natural reactions come out! until after the event when people to the politically correct line! Perhaps S Star would get more readers if they had more realistic & controversial views and opinions printed! Not Rose tinted Specs! Any mention of the unacceptable aggresion shown to Nikki by the Holder crew in next weeks S STAR? By the let off by the Referee siting on the fence? By the shock of MOST pundits when all 4 called back! It would be far more plausible if everybody concerned admited Chris was lucky to be back in! Instead of pleading innocence! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 Are you being deliberately obtuse???!!! WOULDN'T know how to... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mixy230 120 Posted October 8, 2012 lol are you sure? lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PHILIPRISING 7,298 Posted October 8, 2012 WHEN have I said that my opinion is the only one that matters? Mine is just that, an opinion. The only one that matters is that made by the referee.I just happen to agree with it. As do many others. And many do not. How do arrive at the statement MOST? Most on here? Most watching on TV. Most at the stadium? How are you managing to count them? Why should everyone admit Chris was lucky if they don't think so? Why should we say he was guilty when we don't think so? Speedy... so you have never seen a race stopped after a rider or riders have fallen after the 30 metres marker and all four being allowed back in? I already said that I don't condone the scuffle (wouldn't actually call it an assault) but, at the risk of repeating myself, wouldn't have happened if Nicki had walked off the track. It was he who verbally provoked Holder and then physically clashed with Jack Holder and sparked the incident so can hardly claim to have been the innocent party. But it was hardly the worst thing any of us have seen surely. JUST to add, not suggesting Nicki deliberately clashed with Chris's younger brother, he just happened to be in the way when Nicki decided to walk away. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mickthemuppet 976 Posted October 8, 2012 I always thought is a race was stopped in a Grand Prix, somebody must be excluded . .You cannot call it unsatifactory start as the crash occured coming out of the second bend which is probably 60 metres from the start line. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
