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17 hours ago, lucifer sam said:

TOP BRIT Tai Woffinden says it was ‘good to be back’ riding for his country last week.
The Scunthorpe born double World Champion scored a stunning 38 points out of a possible 39 in the Monster Energy FIM Speedway of Nations Final.
But it wasn’t quite enough to hand GB the gold as Russia pipped them to the post in the final – despite Woffinden winning the race.
Now he’s looking forward to a bright new future for the national side under the franchise ownership of Rob Painter and Vicky Blackwell through their VRX Motorsport team.
“This is the first stage of a five-year plan for GB and whilst Rob Painter (team supremo) is making all the right noises I’ll be alongside him, he said.
“I want to say I’m proud of young Robert Lambert, he did a great job throughout the tournament and also a special mention to Craig Cook who travelled with us and was a big member for us as part of the team.
“It was good to be back racing for my country on a team basis.”
Woffinden has explained the circumstances behind the final in Poland – he won the decider but with Russian duo Artem Laguta and Emil Sayfutdinov claiming second and third they effectively won the race 3+1-3.
He said: “The plan was to win the final 5-1 or 4-2 and we knew we could do that so that was the goal.
“In a final like that you cannot slow down the race like I did in previous heats. The competition is just too good, maybe 10 years ago you could but at world level now anyone can beat anyone and you have to do the best job you can.
“Unfortunately the event rules state if you’re second and third you’re better then the winner! “There’s not many things in life where you get rewarded for losing!
“I would like to congratulate Emil and Artem for their world title and look forward to doing it all again next year.”
Woffinden has also congratulated newly crowned British Champion Lambert, who romped to the title with a six-ride maximum in Manchester on Monday.
“He’s the future,” said Woffinden. “Congratulations to him, he deserves it. I know what it means to win your first national title and it’s pretty special.”

 

17 hours ago, Grand Central said:

Actually the issue has NOT been answered at all.

In fact what has just been revealed is that we now KNOW they got the tactics wrong on Saturday AND now, in addition, we know that they still haven't worked that fact out.

Amazing.

I'd say it has but they just got it wrong

16 hours ago, TheReturn said:

Although the question needs to be asked who originated the plan. 

Good question!

15 hours ago, BWitcher said:

Still waiting for an explanation of why it makes perfect sense to NOT try to win a gold medal. 

You advocate it. Phillip Rising advocates it. Seems Team GB advocated it.

Champions League Final.. Liverpool trail Milan 3-0.. co managers Phil Rising and Sommelier.. "Shut up shop lads, let's not concede anymore. Silver is great! We can't take risks and chase the game at this level, not in a final, the standard is far too high"

Superbowl 51.. New England trail Atlanta by 25pts.. head coach Phil Rising...  you get the idea.

Now apply it to Speedway of Nations Pairs Final.. Sayfutidnov gets into 3rd on bend 2.. less then 15% into the race and you're advocating throwing in the white towel.

I got the idea

15 hours ago, Chadster said:

We obviously had a plan but it didn't survive the first two bends, after which the Russians were in front. Bit difficult to come up with plan B in the middle of a speedway race.

No plan B needed... Plan A, don't finish last

15 hours ago, TheReturn said:

Then someone needs a kick up the arse for not having a plan B prior to the race!  

No plan B needed... Plan A, don't finish last

14 hours ago, Mark said:

Are you a Hancock fan.    He has spoken out about slowing a race down since Manzares was injured.    Any views on that

Manzares has views on Hancock

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2 hours ago, iainb said:

No plan B needed... Plan A, don't finish last

 

Ok, but if rider B needed help to stick to Plan A, then rider A needed to originate a Plan B mid-race to help rider B, achieve Plan A.... Or Manager C should have ensured Rider A had a plan B in case Plan A was failing. 

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16 hours ago, Ghostwalker said:

50 heats on the same track in one day sounds a bit much imo and then there is the risk off rain off.

Wouldn't need to do 50 heats per day. 2 x 16-heat meetings would work, or potentially you could even run 2 x 12-heats. 

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4 hours ago, Grachan said:

I think the better way would have been that in the event of a 3-3, the top scoring side are the winners. Not just because GB were top scorers, but to make more value of those 40-odd races beforehand. So the second top scoring side would need a 4-2 to win.

Talking of that final, I was disappointed at the end, and commented on here that we might have won if Tai had slowed the race, but when you see Tai's comments, they make sense.

Basically, we went into that race with a winning mentality - to go and win the heat and, thus, go in and attack the race. Race positively. I can see the validity in that, even though it never worked (mainly because the Russians had a very strong pair and it was unlikely either of them would finish last).

In the end, Robert Lambert was very close to passing Emil at the end of the race, but never, so the tactic never worked. But they went into the race with the mindset to go out and take the race, and the main reason they never was because Russia were on a 5-1 on the first lap so GB became every man for himself. 

 

 

Perfectly put.

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4 hours ago, Grachan said:

Talking of that final, I was disappointed at the end, and commented on here that we might have won if Tai had slowed the race, but when you see Tai's comments, they make sense.

Basically, we went into that race with a winning mentality - to go and win the heat and, thus, go in and attack the race. Race positively. I can see the validity in that, even though it never worked (mainly because the Russians had a very strong pair and it was unlikely either of them would finish last).

In the end, Robert Lambert was very close to passing Emil at the end of the race, but never, so the tactic never worked. But they went into the race with the mindset to go out and take the race, and the main reason they never was because Russia were on a 5-1 on the first lap so GB became every man for himself. 

 

1 minute ago, stevebrum said:

Perfectly put.

 

Not sure it is perfectly put. I agree with Grachan that we rightly started the race with a winning mentality, but it's ridiculous to stick to that original plan when it was blown away on the first lap.  

There needed to be another plan, and anyone sticking to the belief that all Tai could was win the race is naïve (at best). 

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1 hour ago, TheReturn said:

 

Ok, but if rider B needed help to stick to Plan A, then rider A needed to originate a Plan B mid-race to help rider B, achieve Plan A.... Or Manager C should have ensured Rider A had a plan B in case Plan A was failing. 

Rider A Plan A = Finish 2nd or 3rd

Rider B Plan A = Finish 2nd or 3rd

Manager C = Tell Riders A & B to implement Plan A and that there is no Plan B

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I think team riding is between two riders who are in first and second position OR in second and third position. Am not a fan of slowing races down , I think its a

dangerous practice.  Unlike cars speedway bikes don't have brake lights so the rider behind has no idea the rider in front has slowed up until it is too late.  Ask Gino Manzares.   I think

after the first bend when Lambert was well adrift and based on all Lamberts previous rides it was obvious Lambert wasn`t going to pass  Sayfutimov so Tai went for personal glory in front

of his Polish fans.  That's my opinion.

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Posted (edited)

Ha, well if that was the case...

All three failed for different reasons.

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Rider A Plan A = Finish 2nd or 3rd

Went for the win... should Rider A have boon looking for Rider B is a question we could debate.

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Rider B Plan A = Finish 2nd or 3rd

Gave it a damn good go, but failed to achieve this objective.  

1 hour ago, iainb said:

Manager C = Tell Riders A & B to implement Plan A and that there is no Plan B

If this was the case Rider A ignored instruction by chasing the win, and not settling for second. Manager C should have instructed Rider A to turn to Plan B if Plan A is screwed after Lap 1. If Manager C had no plan B then he should be looking for his P45.

Edited by TheReturn

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Posted (edited)

Perhaps we should moderate our language.

The Manager is C.

Has Tai written this ?

Edited by Grand Central

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4 minutes ago, Dornier fixer said:

I think team riding is between two riders who are in first and second position OR in second and third position. Am not a fan of slowing races down , I think its a

dangerous practice.  Unlike cars speedway bikes don't have brake lights so the rider behind has no idea the rider in front has slowed up until it is too late.  Ask Gino Manzares.   I think

after the first bend when Lambert was well adrift and based on all Lamberts previous rides it was obvious Lambert wasn`t going to pass  Sayfutimov so Tai went for personal glory in front

of his Polish fans.  That's my opinion.

He had no option but to go for the win and hope Lambert got a point or one of the Russians failed to finish, holding back could easily have resulted in a 2-4.

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9 minutes ago, foamfence said:

He had no option but to go for the win and hope Lambert got a point or one of the Russians failed to finish, holding back could easily have resulted in a 2-4.

And, in the context of the final, what's the difference between a 2-4 and a 3-3, where your three points come from a win?

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6 minutes ago, norbold said:

And, in the context of the final, what's the difference between a 2-4 and a 3-3, where your three points come from a win?

That's hindsight, he had a split second to asses the best option, I believe he took it. 

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1 minute ago, foamfence said:

That's hindsight, he had a split second to asses the best option, I believe he took it. 

It's not hindsight, everyone knew the rules beforehand. 

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, norbold said:

It's not hindsight, everyone knew the rules beforehand. 

I am tempted to join with you on this but I fear that opinions are so entrenched (on both sides) that I would get nowhere.

It would appear that now 'Tai has spoken' many will be just be happy to let this lie.
No matter that it makes no sense.
And this despite the 'quotes' appearing to be less from 'Scunthorpe's finest' and more from a media manipulator's hand.

Perhaps - with a bit of luck - this format of final will never appear on the 'World' stage again.
And hopefully NONE of us will ever have to give it's tactics another moments thought.

But I fear that GB will never be as close to a World Pairs/Team Championship again as they were on Saturday.

Edited by Grand Central
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27 minutes ago, norbold said:

It's not hindsight, everyone knew the rules beforehand. 

The hindsight being from you.

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